Primarily Primaris Chat Thread

[Guiltysparc]

Greetings fellow macraggians!  I wanted to post up some army list ideas but I am still working through the broad strokes and also wanted to get a chat thread going kind of like the legion tactics threads in HH.

 

I am building a primarily primaris force for 8th so i'd like to focus on build ideas that use mostly the new models.  My current idea is to build around an agressor/chaplain/repulsor murder ball that looks like this.

 

Vanguard Detachment (+1 CP):

Primaris Chaplain

Primaris Lieutenant 

 

2x 5 Intercessors - probably the basic bolt rifle

 

4x Agressors - either build really, but leaning towards flamers for rule of cool

Redemptor - Plasma

 

5x Rievers with grav chutes

 

Repulsor - onslaught cannons, maybe lascannon instead of the heavy bolter

 

Spearhead Detachment (+1 CP):

Primaris Captain

5x Hellblasters with heavy plasmas

3x Lascannon predators

 

 

 

 

 

This comes to about 2000ts.  My thinking is that the agressors, chaplain, and lieutenant would ride up in the repulsor being supported by the shooting in the predators.  The intercessors and redemptor would play midfield objectives supported by the hellblasters.  The reivers would play in the enemy backfield.  I could also swap the vanguard for a brigade and bring a 3rd intercessor squad instead of the reivers for more CPs and objective holding.

 

Another avenue i was thinking is making use of all the assault weapons the primaris units have.  Assault bolters, plasmas, etc.  I feel like there might be something cool there, but i'm not sure.  

 

[Extropian]

I like it. It has my preferred anti-armour option (Predators...and 3 no less, for bonus Killshot deadliness!).

 

My personal tastes force me to note a few things that i would change myself;

- I'm not a lover of the Heavy plasma of Helblasters. I think the difference in strength isnt worth the lass of shots, especially since you already can delete tanks with ease. I would go for the standard or assault versions myself (probably standard as they are footslogging).

- I'm not sure on 5 man Reiver units, as they lack the punch to kill anything in melee. Gut feel is that they are going to bounce off a lot with minimal damage. I myself would swap them for extra Intercessors for more objective claiming power, especially since you are so light on bodies. As you pointed out, this would also give you more CP.

- Last point....i'm not 100% sold on the Chaplain. I understand the idea since he'd certainly make the Aggressors hit more reliably in melee, but tbh i feel like you'd get a better result by dropping him and simply using the points for extra models. Kind of the same with the Lieutenant too....if you lost the Chaplain and simply rammed 6 Aggressors into the Repulsor, you'd actually still average the same number of hits in melee as 4 + chaplain, and get a TON more shooting.

 

Then, the Lieutenant could sit with the Predators/Hellblaster firebase (where presumably the Captain would be too for the plasma hit re-rolls?). Predators with killshot really want a Lieutenant....it raises their chance of wounding most vehicles/monsters from 83% to 97%, which is massive. 

 

But as i said, a lot of that is personal taste and is pretty much doing similar stuff to your list in a different way. Overall....i like the concept, and it's very similar to how my Primaris lists have been looking, though i prefer a few more bodies (normally at the expense of the Dread).

[Guiltysparc]

Thanks for the feedback!

 

I actually like, and agree with, all your notes.  Putting 5 agressors in the repulsor (because it can't hold 6) would be pretty amazing, but i lurrrrrve that chaplain model.  Maybe swap the lieutenant for a 5th aggressor?

 

The more i think about it, the more i think swapping to a battlion and replacing the reivers with a 3rd intercessor squad is the way the go.  I generally build lists with two meaty units where one deepstrikes behind and the other charges from the front, but the reivers are not quite meaty enough for this task, I don't think.  In my 30k list i have a drop pod leviathan and a spartan full of dudes fulfilling that role.

 

For the hellblasters, i was thinking having the extra range on the heavy plasma would just add to the weight of fire of that detachment, but the rapid fire version would provide better support to counter threats that deepstrike in there or want to charge.

[Extropian]

All makes sense. I could totally see what you were aiming for with the Reivers, but 5 of them just feels like it wouldnt do a lot. It's certainly no drop pod Leviathan thats for sure....

 

Oops, good points on the 5 Aggressors, not 6. There's no way you could get a 5th in there with the Chaplain at all then, even with the Lieutenant out. Thats a real shame. I think i'd still rather have 5 there (they benefit a lot from the Chapter tactics too) and the Lt with the firebase, but i know what you mean about the Chaplain model. Damned thing is just too nice.....

 

I really don't think the heavy plasma is needed. The 3 Predators are so absurdly good at armour killing due to Killshot that you really need a bit more weight of fire from your plasma IMO (for reference, with the characters nearby the 3 Predators average 34 damage against T7/T8 3+ save vehicles with Killshot on....).

 

But it's just little details really, it looks solid and fun to me.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Extropian

[Guiltysparc]

If i make the spearhead captain the warlord, he can take the 'storm of fire' trait giving those las preds and hellblasters -1 AP on wound rolls of 6, thats mighty nice.

[Extropian]

If i make the spearhead captain the warlord, he can take the 'storm of fire' trait giving those las preds and hellblasters -1 AP on wound rolls of 6, thats mighty nice.

 

.....yes, do that. 

I missed that, and it's rather brutal. Because its not a roll of 6, it's a roll of 6+.

Which means with Killshot active you get the extra AP on a 5 or a 6 against vehicles/monsters. Which is pretty disgusting.

[Frater Cornelius]

@ Extropian - The Reiver thing is bothering me as well. I like Aggressors, but they are not as tough as I would like them to be. The alternative are Reivers, but even though they feel solid for backcapping, they just feel so ineffectual. Sure, 5 Aggressors are 10 Reavers, so twice the amount of wounds, better mobility and deployment options, but c'mon, the output is just lame. I am not particularly sure.

 

My basic setup in a (nearly) full Primaris army is like this:

 

Captain (usually the regular one, since he is cheaper)

Lieutenant

Either Chaplain or Librarian

 

Plasma Redemptor

 

6 Rapid Fire Hellblasters

Repulsor with full Las and little else

 

10 regular Intercessors

2 units of 5 with Stalkers

(this varies, but it is usually a combination of Rapid Fire and Stalker)

 

Dark Shroud (yes, it is DA, but the differences between DA and UM are rather negligible when it comes to pure Primaris stuff)

 

From here on the troubles start though. I am not sure about Reiver vs Aggressor. Both have their ups and down, but no unit feels like a particular must-take compared to, say, another Repulsor with Plasmas inside.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Immersturm

[Prot]

I've been playing the Reivers and I just don't get them. I'm probably using them wrong, but they seem like a lot of mediocrity for the grenade (which only works on infantry... learned that the hard way). The problem is they can't get in and use the grenade on the same turn.

 

I've reinforced them, added them to massed deep strike, but it seems to work against the army overall to do this. You may get more mileage out of them.

 

I agree with the idea of the Helblaster heavy plasma.... just too many points imho.

 

The rule of cool has to prevail though, and that Chaplain model is darn cool. That being said I'm a huge fan of the Lt's. I roll 1's so often that it's nearly comical. The LT is underused imo. His close combat ability is fine, the mastercrafter boltrifle is actually D2 and a lot of people don't use it... You'd be surprised how many times I get lucky and just pop a Termie. The aura really does come in to play for me far too often to just drop them entirely from my lists. :)

 

3 Las Preds is not something I've done yet, but 1 is often in my lists so I can't see you going wrong with that.

The Repulsor gets super expensive very fast, but with 3 Annihilators, you may not need to beef it up too much. I hope they come with the same design as the Redemptor which is hot swappable without magnets pretty easily.

[Frater Cornelius]

@ Prot - Aggressors with Chaplain and an advancing Dread is very real clock on the opponent and they draw the fire away from your dakka elements. Probably a better, albeit less durable idea than Reivers. Still, I would love an Librarian in the list, which simply will not fit anymore in that setup.

[Prot]

Agreed. I love the libby model... almost finished painting the Primaris Libby, but it probably won't make a list. I always run short of points and he's the first to go.

[Frater Cornelius]

The problem is how good Lieutenants and Captains are and thus take 2 HQ slots of the 3 you will realistically have at 1850.

[Guiltysparc]

Uhg, ya, i have the libby model and want to use him so much.  He would be great throwing viel of time on the agressors, but he is competing for that spot with the chaplain, which is yet another awesome model.

[ronin_cse]

The problem is how good Lieutenants and Captains are and thus take 2 HQ slots of the 3 you will realistically have at 1850.

 

That's the nice thing about UM, you can take Guilliman instead of those two...a lot more points though ;)

[Frater Cornelius]

 

The problem is how good Lieutenants and Captains are and thus take 2 HQ slots of the 3 you will realistically have at 1850.

 

That's the nice thing about UM, you can take Guilliman instead of those two...a lot more points though

 

 

Some of us prefer wearing robes though :P

[TrexPushups]

The problem is how good Lieutenants and Captains are and thus take 2 HQ slots of the 3 you will realistically have at 1850.

This doesn't have to be a problem.

 

You want a battalion & more HQ

 

Are you using 3 heavy, fast, or elite slots? Pick the appropriate detachment and get an extra command point for your trouble.

 

Want to use 5 HQs

 

2 in your battalion and grab a Supreme command detachment for the other three. Enjoy a bonus command point.

 

Can't make anything work at all? Use an auxiliary detachment for that extra HQ at the cost of one command point.

[Frater Cornelius]

I am not sure 4 HQs at 1850 are a good idea for Primaris. Captain + Lieutenant + Chaplain + Librarian and we are looking at 359 points at best. The other issue is that without going all the way or going 'MSU (as in 2 units of 3 as opposed to 6), it is uncomfortable to get 3 Elite or 3 HS slots filled (don't even try to get close with the Inceptors and FA slots Oo). It is simply a question of trade-offs.

[TrexPushups]

I am not sure 4 HQs at 1850 are a good idea for Primaris. Captain + Lieutenant + Chaplain + Librarian and we are looking at 359 points at best. The other issue is that without going all the way or going 'MSU (as in 2 units of 3 as opposed to 6), it is uncomfortable to get 3 Elite or 3 HS slots filled (don't even try to get close with the Inceptors and FA slots Oo). It is simply a question of trade-offs.

Apothecaries & ancients are both elites.

 

If you want either one(I like the apothecary as ever model brought back is at least 20 points back into your army)

 

That plus a dreadnought and a unit of reivers and you are done getting to 3 elites.

[Frater Cornelius]

That isn't the point. The point is that bringing 4 HQs in a full Primaris army is a massive drain on your funds :/

[Aothaine]

I think the Reivers need to be used as a counter assault unit. They are too soft to tackle the big boys themselves. But adding them to an existing assault that is in on your intercessors or hellblasters is a good idea imho. I would keep them on the flanks and swing the trap shut when you're assaulted. If they assault your Reaviers that that is great! Just pull them out, grenade and shoot, assault back in for free. I am finding that the Primaris work REALLY well with the Ultramarines tactics and not so will with other tactics or no tactics at all.

 

Being able with fallback, shoot, cp, assault is really damn powerful and I think that is where the Reivers will show their true colors. Tough to be honest I like them better with the -1ap stormbolters.

 

If you're going to run aggressors you need to have an apothecary with them. They are too expensive to just let die from the hail of fire. You might even want to reduce the model count by one and toss them in the floating raider we now have to get them to the front and use the Reivers to support them.

[Prot]

I think aggressors move fast enough to follow a vehicle. I think I'm saving my Repressor for my Helblasters.

 

The Primaris captain is a solid, economic choive though. The price of the model is killing me though. Plus using 3CPs for the CM advantage is something I'd like to try.

[Frater Cornelius]

I might consider Gravis Captain if I run Aggressors. Yet another bit of pressure walking its way forward. Though Chaplain might still be a better option. Less staying power and output, but better re-rolls and the Captain is needed with the shooty dudes anyway.

[Guiltysparc]

I might consider Gravis Captain if I run Aggressors. Yet another bit of pressure walking its way forward. Though Chaplain might still be a better option. Less staying power and output, but better re-rolls and the Captain is needed with the shooty dudes anyway.

 

Yep, i went back and forth on the gravis captain with the agressors but am leaning towards the hit and wound rerolls from the chaplain and liuetenant.

[Frater Cornelius]

By the way, what is your opinion on two Repulsor lists as opposed to one Repulsor, regardless of what embarks on it?

[Extropian]

By the way, what is your opinion on two Repulsor lists as opposed to one Repulsor, regardless of what embarks on it?

 

Seems fine. no different than a multiple Land Raider list in theory. Those are actually decent again in 8th.

 

Frankly, i get a bit excited by the thought of something stupid like triple Repulsors carrying a payload of Aggressors, led by a character in each one. Or something equally silly. its like the old classic "Triple Raiders full of Terminators/something nasty" lists from begone eras.

[Prot]

When it comes to 'mid level' competitive lists, I've always preferred cheap HQ's with loyalists. The army can do lots of heavy lifting. Chaos for example is the opposite (for me). They have poorer choices in the everyday marines section of the codex, forcing the HQ's to do some serious lifting (as a bigger cost).

 

For this reason I think the Primaris Captain is my favourite overall choice. I confess I still really like the look/feel/ability of the Gravis Captain. However cost wise he's a fair chunk more than a vanilla Primaris captain.  With the Gravis Captain you really get close to treading on Calgar territory which is a much better deal.

 

The Captain + 3 CP's for CM upgrade is still a very good, cheap point cost, plug and play HQ.

 

The Chaplain is a great buy too, but you're definitely committing him to that Repulsor.