What do we think of the support Characters?

[neonmole]

Hi guys,

 

Pretty simple topic for discussion, as the title suggests, what do we think of the support Character options we have - now that we have tried them out for a while.

 

The the two I am thinking about specifically are the Sanguinary Priest, and Sanguinary Ancient, though if anyone has thoughts on he librarian etc I would love to hear them.

 

Personally (in the few games I have played) I have found the priest to be quite good actually, S5 seems quite solid for his cost, without factoring in his healing abilities. On the other hand I have found the Sanguinary Ancient to be quite underwhelming. The immune to morale (which I thought was a must on paper) in particular in practice is worth very little...

 

What are you guys favouring in terms of characters (particularly supporting ones)? Loadouts etc would be interesting!

 

Cheers

Joe

 

PS. Lemartes is an absolute bargain for his cost... found him to be stellar.

[Aothaine]

The problem I see with the Sanguinary Ancient is that most marine armies are still running MSU. So we have to lose 60% of the squad (3 models) before we even have worry about morale and we get a free re-roll on top of that causing casualties from morale to be very rare. He will shine more when/if people start rocking 10 man squads which there is no reason to right now. Razorbacks are so good they are forcing marine players into MSU unless they are solely focused on assault.

 

The Sanguinary Priest is amazing! We get an apothecary on steroids. Pretty much no downside to him as he is right now.

 

The librarian is a character you need to build a list around. He can buff our assault units pretty nicely but it can be a huge risk. To be honest, I just don't think Blood Angels need the time-bomb in their ranks. Can you build a list around them? Sure. Can you win games with them? Sure. But I prefer to go librarian free. Almost makes me wonder if Black Templars might be better suited for me. Lol! Smite is good. Better if you can spam it though. The other Blood Angel powers are kind of meh for the risk involved in casting them imho. Chaos marines have two smites, Space Marines (Codex) have a bunch of new powers now that just make it worth the risk. I would personally hold off on Librarians until we get our codex and re-evaluate them then. I also want to throw out a small exception to this rule. Librarian Dreadnoughts being delivered with SG in a Stormraven are quite scary. I highly rate Librarian Dreadnoughts.

 

Auras are incredibly powerful in this edition and taking as many as you can is what you want to do. If you want to focus on assaulting take chaplains and priests. If you want to focus ranged, focus captains(chapter masters) and priests/techmarines. 

 

Something else I want to note is that we currently have the best assault squads in the game. The Space Marine codex gutted generic assault squads and we should be jumping with joy and hoping that we get to retain special weapons and meltaguns in our assault squads. 

Edited August 1, 2017 by Aothaine

[Karhedron]

The Sanguinary Priest is so good as to be almost auto-include in any assaulty army.

 

Sanguinary Ancient is OK, not so much for the Morale as for the rerolling 1s to wound. Put him with an assaulty squad or two and he will help the damage to stick.

 

Take a Supreme Command Detachment of the Sanguinor (Warlord), Priest, Ancient and a large squad of Sanguinary guard for an awesome blender unit. +1S, +1A, rerolling all misses, immune to morale, rerolling 1s to wound and the Priest can patch up wounds if necessary. Costs a small fortune but will mince almost anything.

[Indefragable]

Sanguinary Ancient with plasma pistol, Death Mask, and sword. Especially near Sang Priest, S5 AP-3 will do work on most threats. 2+/2W on a secondary character is pretty good as well, especially if he can be healed by the priest.

 

Since you want him to be slightly behind as a support char, he's not a bad place to put a death mask.

 

I take him for re-roll To Wound and the Morale negation is a bonus.

[The Unseen]

I'm finding in my area with people running psykers of their own throwing smite all over, that the librarians denial of stuff is really important.

To bad libbys only deny 1 power, but mephiston denies 2.

Mortal Wounds really hurt more elite forces.

 

The other 2 support characters are very list dependant.

Edited August 1, 2017 by The Unseen

[Boudan]

Sanguinary Priests are excellent, and Corbulo is pretty much an auto-take. The bonus rules (Far-Seeing Eye, Red Grail, Heaven's Teeth - reduced AP Power Axe) he confers cost very little for their worth. Basically an Inferno Pistol in cost for an uber-Priest.

[bushman101]

personally, I like the Librarian. Being able to throw around mortal wounds is handy for hard targets.

 

I haven't got a lot out of my Sang Priests, but I haven't been running them super aggressive either.

 

I love captains. They are the first thing I put in my lists these days

 

Banners/Ancients don't seem to do much. Morale isn't much of a problem and a single attack when a guy dies isn't much.

 

Haven't tried Chappys, Tech-Marines or named characters yet.

[Remtek]

My ravorites are

 

* Corbs - generally awesome 

* JP libby if running 15 DC for the 4++ and +1A

* Meph in a rhino/raider or running behind it, giving it 4++

* Astorath, his one use per game is really useful

* Seth - if running a gunline

 

Dante is solid too, but a tad expensive and lacking in special rules.

[Indefragable]

I find Astorath to be rather one-note. What am I missing?

 

To me, at a super-optimized level, DC are basically only* good for Thunder hammers, as they are one of the few units in the game that can get 3x swings each with them without further buffs. Astorath can this make them fearless, re-roll To Hit, AND give them +1 To Hit to negate the penalty of HAMMERTIME.

 

 

*for effect

[Karhedron]

I'm not sure it is that simple. There are several horde lists that look like becoming an established part of the meta. Orks, IG and Nids all feature easy ways to run big blobs of cheap infantry that ignore normal morale and simply drown opponents under a tide of attacks.

 

10 DC with Chainswords and Astorath's buffs should kill about 15 Ork boyz on the charge, enough to burn through their Mob Rule (although I realise that is not their only morale mechanism). Whilst DC are a good place for Thunder Hammers, don't over look their potential as a blender unit. Their large number of attacks makes them good for horde control.

[The Unseen]

I'm not sure it is that simple. There are several horde lists that look like becoming an established part of the meta. Orks, IG and Nids all feature easy ways to run big blobs of cheap infantry that ignore normal morale and simply drown opponents under a tide of attacks.

 

10 DC with Chainswords and Astorath's buffs should kill about 15 Ork boyz on the charge, enough to burn through their Mob Rule (although I realise that is not their only morale mechanism). Whilst DC are a good place for Thunder Hammers, don't over look their potential as a blender unit. Their large number of attacks makes them good for horde control.

 

Yeah, but 5 company vets with storm bolters, chainswords, and no aura buffs kill 10 orks with their combined fire within 12" and then charging. For 90 pts. Death Company cost way to much, and require something like 3 characters to be jammed up their ass to be a halfway decent melee unit. And at that point, your just throwing good points after bad, since those 3 characters would turn any unit into a halfway decent combat character.

 

Indefragable had the right of it, DC are basically only good for carting around stuff like thunder hammers, since they get 3 swings each, and then they only need the 1 supporting character, a chaplain for the re-rolls to hit, to do work. If you want them to blend, you have to take at least a priest and chaplain, and at that point bolters are significantly more efficient, and you were bringing those anyway.

[Indefragable]

 

I'm not sure it is that simple. There are several horde lists that look like becoming an established part of the meta. Orks, IG and Nids all feature easy ways to run big blobs of cheap infantry that ignore normal morale and simply drown opponents under a tide of attacks.

 

10 DC with Chainswords and Astorath's buffs should kill about 15 Ork boyz on the charge, enough to burn through their Mob Rule (although I realise that is not their only morale mechanism). Whilst DC are a good place for Thunder Hammers, don't over look their potential as a blender unit. Their large number of attacks makes them good for horde control.

 

Yeah, but 5 company vets with storm bolters, chainswords, and no aura buffs kill 10 orks with their combined fire within 12" and then charging. For 90 pts. Death Company cost way to much, and require something like 3 characters to be jammed up their ass to be a halfway decent melee unit. And at that point, your just throwing good points after bad, since those 3 characters would turn any unit into a halfway decent combat character.

 

Indefragable had the right of it, DC are basically only good for carting around stuff like thunder hammers, since they get 3 swings each, and then they only need the 1 supporting character, a chaplain for the re-rolls to hit, to do work. If you want them to blend, you have to take at least a priest and chaplain, and at that point bolters are significantly more efficient, and you were bringing those anyway.

 

 

DC get 4x attacks with chainswords. Vanguard Vets/Company Vets can get 4x attacks without needing to charge. DC have Ld7, VV are Ld9 with the Sgt. VV can also get 3++ for 5pts/ head which can not ever be underestimated this edition.

 

Other than Lemartes's re-rolls to Charges, anything you can do to buff DC, you can do to VV : +1A from Sanguinor, +1S from Sang Priest, +1A

 

How much is the 6+ pseudo-FNP worth to you?

[Crimson Ghost IX]

Kinda depends on what models you have and want to you wanna run I suppose. I like veterans and DC both. (DC have been nerfed as is, but are not trash).

I prefer Veterans mostly. That said...

 

I think support characters are great, but they seem to benefit stand and shoot armies slightly more than assault armies.

I am NOT saying they suck for us (absolutelyTake em!), but assault has some extra headaches because of them that standing around does not in my opinion.

 

I am worried about needing all these characters to make my army shine, it can be cumbersome to maneuver and spread these bubbles on the assault.

Things get left behind, units have to tail back etc.

 

I am hoping we get a bonus to maneuver when the codex hits, or I suspect we might be in trouble again this edition.

Just saying I am worried about support characters and trying to dance about with 6 inch bubbles and short range special guns / charging etc.

Suspect we are perhaps gonna suck hind teet again as things might be tho.

 

Red marines with ranged stand and shoot (48 inch lascannon etc) plussed up with characters and backhand blow counter-charge is looking like it has the edge so far in 8th for me.

Land Raiders with Lascannons and jump trooping veterans inside when the enemy closes looks decent thankfully.

 

But I want Descending Angels... *Rabble Rabble *Shakes Fist =)

Will wait and see what the codex says...

 

We are Blood Angels, there is always hope and a way forward *nod.

The cup has more in it than last edition so far currently, so that is a good thing at least.

[Boudan]

I'm relieved that GW is moving to a more balancable rule set and quicker publication schedule. I think certain trends in the game's balance are going to change long-term, especially with regard to BA, and more specifically Dante, the Death Company, and other items. I'm excited to see what the codex brings.

 

Edit: corrected spelling and words

Edited August 6, 2017 by Boudan

[tychobi]

I am not sold on our priests or even aura buffs yet.  It can be hard to see the opportunity cost of a buff character vs the value it provides.  Priest +1 str is cool but 100 points or so is 5 DC with jump packs.  The healing of units can be ok on Terminators or Cents or Sang Guard but outside of very pricey models it is a total trap.  Healing characters is better but still not all that amazing vs just killing the enemy outright with a combat character instead.  I want to like the priest but no FNP aura kinda makes him a tad anemic for my taste.

[Boudan]

Sir:

 

Brother Corbulo's presence allows STR 4 assault units (LC Vets!) to wound MEQ on 3s instead of 4s... this is a *massive* buff. As a bonus, attack rolls of 6 generate an additional attack. These buffs come wrapped in a Ld9 mid-tier melee HQ who could, in theory, also heal or revive someone. Don't forget that he re-rolls any one of his dice rolls, each turn. Sadly, no Jump Pack option.

 

For 94 points!

[Karhedron]

Agreed, Corbulo is a great choice for any CC squad on foot (LC Terminators in an LRC are probably the best choice but expensive so you would practically be building a list around this). S4 -> S5 is a significant jump as it means you get an effective +1 to wound VS MEQs. You also get the same bonus against T5 infantry which covers Plague marines, Wraithguard, bikers and gravis units. It also doubles your wound rate vs T8 units like Land Raiders and Knights as they no longer double-out your strength.

 

Overall S5 is a bit of a sweet-spot in the current system due to the clustering of tough infantry at T4 and T5.

 

Priests are great even without multiwound units just for patching up other characters (an act which does not require a roll or pin them in place if they fail). You do't really need Corbulo for that though.

[Indefragable]

Agreed, Corbulo is a great choice for any CC squad on foot (LC Terminators in an LRC are probably the best choice but expensive so you would practically be building a list around this). S4 -> S5 is a significant jump as it means you get an effective +1 to wound VS MEQs. You also get the same bonus against T5 infantry which covers Plague marines, Wraithguard, bikers and gravis units. It also doubles your wound rate vs T8 units like Land Raiders and Knights as they no longer double-out your strength.

 

Overall S5 is a bit of a sweet-spot in the current system due to the clustering of tough infantry at T4 and T5.

 

Priests are great even without multiwound units just for patching up other characters (an act which does not require a roll or pin them in place if they fail). You do't really need Corbulo for that though.

LC Terminators with Corbulo and Banner are (in theoryhammer, anyways) nizzzzasty. The trick is that they need a transport and an expensive one at that. I keep debating between LRC and Stormraven. Prob with the SR is room: you have to bring a 3+ sv Chaplain instead of the Termie Ancient. For already Ld9 Termies, T-Ancient is superior in every way.

 

I plan on running this for one of my next games.

[Charlo]

Work well enough, but a big shame they seem to be our sole crux and theme.

 

Also expensive.