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Brothers,

 

I am greatly discouraged. My old Ultramarine blue recipe no longer works to my satisfaction. I used to basecoat with a bright blue (like the old Enchanted Blue) and then highlight with a very light blue-grey (like Fenrisian Gray) and wash the model with the old GW blue wash. Because the wash muted the bright colors, the result was a deep blue with noticeable, but not strong, highlights. This doesnt seem to work anymore. Something about Drakenhof Nightshade is different. When spread out over surfaces, it becomes dull and chalky. The only time I am getting results like I want is when the sueface is very small, like the little patches of blue between filigree on Guilliman. For anything bigger, it just falls flat.

 

Ok, no problem. Duncan shows us this stuff every day. But I'm just not getting the results I want. Macragge Blue seems to be both deep and vibrant for everyone else, but when I apply it it's nearly black. It looks like a Crimson Fist blue. Nothing at all like I expect or want. I do normally prime in black, but Macragge Blue is a basecoat. It shouldn't matter that much.

 

So I'm becoming tired and upset. I just cannot get a Primaris marine to look anything like they should. When I paint guardsmen, I feel like a rock star. The colors go on right, the washes work, the highlights are easy. When I paint marines, I feel like a howler monkey with Down syndrome.

 

Everyday I get on here and I see marine after marine with a rich, deep blue and everyone singing praises for this new basecoat and it's just not happening for me. How are you guys painting your Ultramarines? I need a new approach and I need it fast. I'm on the verge of saying to hell with with it. But if it breaks my will to paint marines, then it breaks my will to stick with 40k. Please help.

 

(Mods: I put this here instead of the painting forum because it's Ultra specific. If it needs to be moved, I understand.)

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I am working through my guys now, here is a picture of the intercessors i'm nearly finished with. For the blue i did the following...

Spray Black

Spray macragge blue

All over wash with nuln oil

All over highlight with macragge blue (excluding recesses)

Edge highlight with calgar blue

More selective edge highlight with fenrisian grey

gallery_92768_13434_280784.jpg

If you want a more muted highlight style you could use altdorf guard blue for the first edge highlight and calgar blue as your selective edge highlight. Thats how i did the blue on my 30k world eaters.

gallery_92768_11638_101170.jpg

If you're having problems with patchiness, then you might try layering up from your shade, instead of using the midtone as your base. That is; start from a deep blue and work up with your midtone, leaving the shade just in the recesses. From there, you can highlight up as usual.

 

Alternatively, you could try the approach here. 

Painting Ultramarines Part I

Painting Ultramarines Part II

There's a lot of theory waffle (sorry, I tend to get carried away!), but the underlying principle is to apply the midtone, then to selectively remove the shading tone while it remains wet. 

 

You'll end up with the following effect:

a.jpg

 

I do recommend Mordian Blue, but that's a [sCRAPSHUNTERRORABORT] to get hold of these days. I hate to say it, but Macragge Blue is the nearest Citadel replacement.

 

If you're open to other manufacturers (I do recommend Vallejo's ranges) Dakka Dakka has an old but useful conversion chart that recommends some alternatives. Blues tend to have good coverage anyway – part of the reason they're such a user-friendly colour paint.

I am working through my guys now, here is a picture of the intercessors i'm nearly finished with. For the blue i did the following...

Spray Black

Spray macragge blue

All over wash with nuln oil

All over highlight with macragge blue (excluding recesses)

Edge highlight with calgar blue

More selective edge highlight with fenrisian grey

gallery_92768_13434_280784.jpg

If you want a more muted highlight style you could use altdorf guard blue for the first edge highlight and calgar blue as your selective edge highlight. Thats how i did the blue on my 30k world eaters.

gallery_92768_11638_101170.jpg

Its not that the highlight is too strong, its that my blue looks *nothing* like yours. You said your blue fields were Macragge Blue, Nuln Oil, Macragge Blue. If I only had my experience to go by, I wouldn't believe it. The only results I'm getting from Macragge Blue are so deep navy blue as to be nearly black. I don't understand why the same pot of paint seems to be giving everyone else Ultramarines and me Crimson Fists. I just don't get it. It's maddening.

Kantor blue, recess wash with nuln oil, macragge blue thinned and used as a layer paint to gradually lighten most areas and finished with altdorf guard blue for highlights.

It makes a smoother transition without obviously bright edge highlights. Its how i do cloaks in a different gw product.

I am working through my guys now, here is a picture of the intercessors i'm nearly finished with. For the blue i did the following...

Spray Black

Spray macragge blue

All over wash with nuln oil

All over highlight with macragge blue (excluding recesses)

Edge highlight with calgar blue

More selective edge highlight with fenrisian grey

gallery_92768_13434_280784.jpg

If you want a more muted highlight style you could use altdorf guard blue for the first edge highlight and calgar blue as your selective edge highlight. Thats how i did the blue on my 30k world eaters.

gallery_92768_11638_101170.jpg

Its not that the highlight is too strong, its that my blue looks *nothing* like yours. You said your blue fields were Macragge Blue, Nuln Oil, Macragge Blue. If I only had my experience to go by, I wouldn't believe it. The only results I'm getting from Macragge Blue are so deep navy blue as to be nearly black. I don't understand why the same pot of paint seems to be giving everyone else Ultramarines and me Crimson Fists. I just don't get it. It's maddening.

That is interesting that you are seeing macragge so dark. One thing to note is that i'm spraying the first coat of macragge blue over the black, so i'm not really painting over the black undercoat with the macragge pot. Could be that? Here the macragge blue spray before any shading...

gallery_92768_13434_72994.jpg

Like others, I spray the Macragge blue using the rattlecan over a black primer instead of using the paint from the pot. Don't know if this what could be making the difference for you or not. This is what mine look like after a single coat of blue spray.

http://www.simpleimageresizer.com/_uploads/photos/5b2c6bd4/IMG_5249_800x600.jpg

 

The spray can itself is great, very good coverage and it goes on very smoothly. Just have to watch out for when the can is running low because your figures can end up looking dreadful if not careful, a mistake I've made once or twice.

 

Jay

Okay so this is what I do. I realize this probably isn't something you're interested in but for the sake of full disclosure this is my new (post selling my Ultramarines to miniwargaming) army. So it is far less bright, and less saturated.

This is a squad I just finished:

gallery_2760_13290_1417950.jpg

- This is the Macragge Blue, straight from the can to the model. It sticks very well, and I do not do black primer any more (I just prefer less coats for a thin paint job).

- Then I hit the areas that might have been missed with a brush using macragge.

- I do zenithal airbrush mixing in Calgar blue with Macragge mixed in.

- I do a final zenith highlight adding a bit of Lothern to the above concoction.

- The previous two steps aren't necessary at all, but regardless at this point I now hit the whole model with a 50/50 Water/Drakenhoff Night Shade. I make sure there is very little pooling afterwards (before drying).

- After wash dries I go back and hit it with the airbrush to 'pop' the very middle of the zenith points.(The wash dulls everything down a lot).

Then I do highlights, etc.

For me it's the Night Shade that helps me create my 'dark imperium' ultra's. Anyone can do that process if they like it. It's super easy.

Well if the blue looks too dark to you it could be something as easy as switching to a white primer instead of black, you might be surprised at what a difference it makes.

 

Also Vallejo game colors tend to match the older GW colors pretty well, you could try some non citadel paints

It's definitely possible that the primer is the problem. I will run some tests. Id be a little surprised though since I've not noticed any difference with undercoats when using the new GW base paints.

Anyway, here is a quick example. I knocked out the legs on this Inceptor with the studio scheme (our left, the Marine's right) and guiltysparc's version with the Nuln Oil and additional layer of Macragge Blue (our right, the Marine's left). The codpiece and upper body are just plain Macragge Blue. It's a Crimson Fist. It's just not the sapphire blue in the pics above.

gallery_56919_11135_1039925.jpg

Under the LED it's just dark and dull. Under natural light, it barely looks blue. I suppose the spray be brighter...but it's wicked expensive and shouldn't it be the same as the paint pot? Isn't that half the point?

It's definitely possible that the primer is the problem. I will run some tests. Id be a little surprised though since I've not noticed any difference with undercoats when using the new GW base paints.

Anyway, here is a quick example. I knocked out the legs on this Inceptor with the studio scheme (our left, the Marine's right) and guiltysparc's version with the Nuln Oil and additional layer of Macragge Blue (our right, the Marine's left). The codpiece and upper body are just plain Macragge Blue. It's a Crimson Fist. It's just not the sapphire blue in the pics above.

gallery_56919_11135_1039925.jpg

Under the LED it's just dark and dull. Under natural light, it barely looks blue. I suppose the spray be brighter...but it's wicked expensive and shouldn't it be the same as the paint pot? Isn't that half the point?

Well I'll tell you that my Eldar primed with white and painted with Mephiston red are much brighter and vibrant than my Ad. Mech who are Mephiston Red with a black prime. Also the blue in your picture doesn't really look that dark to me to be honest :p

Not seeing it.  As I said, it is brighter, right under the light.  But it's soooooo dark.  Perhaps my highlights are too subtle and its tricking me.

 

I don't know.  But I seems much darker to me than yours.

 

I'll try with a grey primer.  Maybe that will do it.

I use Ultramarine blue from  Valejo. Looks like Ultramarine blue from old citadel range.

 

I do black spray basecoat, then macrage blue, then drakenhoff nightshade, then ultramarine blue.

I do highlights mixing ultramarines blue (valejo) and electric blue (valejo) first 2:1, second 1:2. And don't forget lahmian medium.

Edited by garreth

Not seeing it.  As I said, it is brighter, right under the light.  But it's soooooo dark.  Perhaps my highlights are too subtle and its tricking me.

 

I don't know.  But I seems much darker to me than yours.

 

I'll try with a grey primer.  Maybe that will do it.

 

Brother Captain Ed you're not wrong actually. The paint pots of Macragge Blue and the Macragge Blue spray are actually different colours. I was base coating a tonne of minis including vehicles a while ago and had two terminators left over after spraying everything and so hand painted the two termies as I was too impatient to wait to get more spray. The hand painted Macragge Blue is noticeably darker than the sprayed Macragge Blue. I'll try to remember to post a pic tomorrow with one next to the other.

Ed I love the darker blues. I think you're being too hard on yourself.

 

That being said I do think the spray is very slightly lighter than Macragge blue. Just try a can. It lasts a very long time and makes vehicles so much easier.

 

But I also will tell you there will be a huge difference if you go blue on white primer. Probably more than you want.

I use Macragge Blue on a Chaos Black undercoat, then shade with Drakenhof Nightshade, then Altdorf Guard Blue (leaving some shaded spots in recesses), then overall wash with Guilliman Blue, then highlight with Calgar Blue with extreme highlight of Blue Horror.

I airbrush black primer, then pre-highlight with a very light grey primer, they give it an overall light airbrush of Macragge/Mordian blue. Then recess shade with Agrax Earthshade, followed by a selective edge highlight where the blue is brightest, with Calgar Blue
20228683_10154983165817462_1021026399326

I airbrush black primer, then pre-highlight with a very light grey primer, they give it an overall light airbrush of Macragge/Mordian blue. Then recess shade with Agrax Earthshade, followed by a selective edge highlight where the blue is brightest, with Calgar Blue

20228683_10154983165817462_1021026399326

THAT is the look I want!

I have the same problem with Vallejo Ultramarine Blue, I have seen minis in a bright blue that I like a lot, but when I test it in a minit the finis was more of a Pale Purple Blue more fit to novamarines.

My formula using Vallejo has been:
MC Prussian Blue
GC Magic Blue

MC Sky Blue

 

DSC 0976

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