Brother Captain Ed Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Brothers, I am greatly discouraged. My old Ultramarine blue recipe no longer works to my satisfaction. I used to basecoat with a bright blue (like the old Enchanted Blue) and then highlight with a very light blue-grey (like Fenrisian Gray) and wash the model with the old GW blue wash. Because the wash muted the bright colors, the result was a deep blue with noticeable, but not strong, highlights. This doesnt seem to work anymore. Something about Drakenhof Nightshade is different. When spread out over surfaces, it becomes dull and chalky. The only time I am getting results like I want is when the sueface is very small, like the little patches of blue between filigree on Guilliman. For anything bigger, it just falls flat. Ok, no problem. Duncan shows us this stuff every day. But I'm just not getting the results I want. Macragge Blue seems to be both deep and vibrant for everyone else, but when I apply it it's nearly black. It looks like a Crimson Fist blue. Nothing at all like I expect or want. I do normally prime in black, but Macragge Blue is a basecoat. It shouldn't matter that much. So I'm becoming tired and upset. I just cannot get a Primaris marine to look anything like they should. When I paint guardsmen, I feel like a rock star. The colors go on right, the washes work, the highlights are easy. When I paint marines, I feel like a howler monkey with Down syndrome. Everyday I get on here and I see marine after marine with a rich, deep blue and everyone singing praises for this new basecoat and it's just not happening for me. How are you guys painting your Ultramarines? I need a new approach and I need it fast. I'm on the verge of saying to hell with with it. But if it breaks my will to paint marines, then it breaks my will to stick with 40k. Please help. (Mods: I put this here instead of the painting forum because it's Ultra specific. If it needs to be moved, I understand.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guiltysparc Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 I am working through my guys now, here is a picture of the intercessors i'm nearly finished with. For the blue i did the following... Spray Black Spray macragge blue All over wash with nuln oil All over highlight with macragge blue (excluding recesses) Edge highlight with calgar blue More selective edge highlight with fenrisian grey If you want a more muted highlight style you could use altdorf guard blue for the first edge highlight and calgar blue as your selective edge highlight. Thats how i did the blue on my 30k world eaters. Prot, Redrandy93 and Xthanitos 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4840302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder_god Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 I'm continually in the same boat. I'm not a big fan of edge high lights. I'm having decent luck with the McCragge blue spray, but proper high lights evade me... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4840348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
apologist Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 If you're having problems with patchiness, then you might try layering up from your shade, instead of using the midtone as your base. That is; start from a deep blue and work up with your midtone, leaving the shade just in the recesses. From there, you can highlight up as usual. Alternatively, you could try the approach here. Painting Ultramarines Part I Painting Ultramarines Part II There's a lot of theory waffle (sorry, I tend to get carried away!), but the underlying principle is to apply the midtone, then to selectively remove the shading tone while it remains wet. You'll end up with the following effect: I do recommend Mordian Blue, but that's a [sCRAPSHUNTERRORABORT] to get hold of these days. I hate to say it, but Macragge Blue is the nearest Citadel replacement. If you're open to other manufacturers (I do recommend Vallejo's ranges) Dakka Dakka has an old but useful conversion chart that recommends some alternatives. Blues tend to have good coverage anyway – part of the reason they're such a user-friendly colour paint. Captain Idaho and Prot 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4840368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Ed Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 I am working through my guys now, here is a picture of the intercessors i'm nearly finished with. For the blue i did the following... Spray Black Spray macragge blue All over wash with nuln oil All over highlight with macragge blue (excluding recesses) Edge highlight with calgar blue More selective edge highlight with fenrisian grey If you want a more muted highlight style you could use altdorf guard blue for the first edge highlight and calgar blue as your selective edge highlight. Thats how i did the blue on my 30k world eaters. Its not that the highlight is too strong, its that my blue looks *nothing* like yours. You said your blue fields were Macragge Blue, Nuln Oil, Macragge Blue. If I only had my experience to go by, I wouldn't believe it. The only results I'm getting from Macragge Blue are so deep navy blue as to be nearly black. I don't understand why the same pot of paint seems to be giving everyone else Ultramarines and me Crimson Fists. I just don't get it. It's maddening. Guiltysparc 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4840376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Sirus Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Kantor blue, recess wash with nuln oil, macragge blue thinned and used as a layer paint to gradually lighten most areas and finished with altdorf guard blue for highlights. It makes a smoother transition without obviously bright edge highlights. Its how i do cloaks in a different gw product. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4840388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder_god Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 http://i.imgur.com/sThqtX7.jpg This is what I'm getting with the spray. I'm generally not a fan of rattle cans, bit the color is so strong and the finish is nice. I've been searching for a high light color to airbrush. Guiltysparc 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4840428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guiltysparc Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 I am working through my guys now, here is a picture of the intercessors i'm nearly finished with. For the blue i did the following... Spray Black Spray macragge blue All over wash with nuln oil All over highlight with macragge blue (excluding recesses) Edge highlight with calgar blue More selective edge highlight with fenrisian grey If you want a more muted highlight style you could use altdorf guard blue for the first edge highlight and calgar blue as your selective edge highlight. Thats how i did the blue on my 30k world eaters. Its not that the highlight is too strong, its that my blue looks *nothing* like yours. You said your blue fields were Macragge Blue, Nuln Oil, Macragge Blue. If I only had my experience to go by, I wouldn't believe it. The only results I'm getting from Macragge Blue are so deep navy blue as to be nearly black. I don't understand why the same pot of paint seems to be giving everyone else Ultramarines and me Crimson Fists. I just don't get it. It's maddening. That is interesting that you are seeing macragge so dark. One thing to note is that i'm spraying the first coat of macragge blue over the black, so i'm not really painting over the black undercoat with the macragge pot. Could be that? Here the macragge blue spray before any shading... Redrandy93 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4840434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Dog Studios Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Like others, I spray the Macragge blue using the rattlecan over a black primer instead of using the paint from the pot. Don't know if this what could be making the difference for you or not. This is what mine look like after a single coat of blue spray. http://www.simpleimageresizer.com/_uploads/photos/5b2c6bd4/IMG_5249_800x600.jpg The spray can itself is great, very good coverage and it goes on very smoothly. Just have to watch out for when the can is running low because your figures can end up looking dreadful if not careful, a mistake I've made once or twice. Jay rookie40K 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4840594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Okay so this is what I do. I realize this probably isn't something you're interested in but for the sake of full disclosure this is my new (post selling my Ultramarines to miniwargaming) army. So it is far less bright, and less saturated. This is a squad I just finished: - This is the Macragge Blue, straight from the can to the model. It sticks very well, and I do not do black primer any more (I just prefer less coats for a thin paint job). - Then I hit the areas that might have been missed with a brush using macragge. - I do zenithal airbrush mixing in Calgar blue with Macragge mixed in. - I do a final zenith highlight adding a bit of Lothern to the above concoction. - The previous two steps aren't necessary at all, but regardless at this point I now hit the whole model with a 50/50 Water/Drakenhoff Night Shade. I make sure there is very little pooling afterwards (before drying). - After wash dries I go back and hit it with the airbrush to 'pop' the very middle of the zenith points.(The wash dulls everything down a lot). Then I do highlights, etc. For me it's the Night Shade that helps me create my 'dark imperium' ultra's. Anyone can do that process if they like it. It's super easy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4840642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin_cse Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Well if the blue looks too dark to you it could be something as easy as switching to a white primer instead of black, you might be surprised at what a difference it makes. Also Vallejo game colors tend to match the older GW colors pretty well, you could try some non citadel paints Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4840649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Ed Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 It's definitely possible that the primer is the problem. I will run some tests. Id be a little surprised though since I've not noticed any difference with undercoats when using the new GW base paints. Anyway, here is a quick example. I knocked out the legs on this Inceptor with the studio scheme (our left, the Marine's right) and guiltysparc's version with the Nuln Oil and additional layer of Macragge Blue (our right, the Marine's left). The codpiece and upper body are just plain Macragge Blue. It's a Crimson Fist. It's just not the sapphire blue in the pics above. Under the LED it's just dark and dull. Under natural light, it barely looks blue. I suppose the spray be brighter...but it's wicked expensive and shouldn't it be the same as the paint pot? Isn't that half the point? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4840739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guiltysparc Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 That looks pretty blue to me...? Looks pretty much like mine minus the higher contrast style highlights. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4840747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin_cse Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 It's definitely possible that the primer is the problem. I will run some tests. Id be a little surprised though since I've not noticed any difference with undercoats when using the new GW base paints. Anyway, here is a quick example. I knocked out the legs on this Inceptor with the studio scheme (our left, the Marine's right) and guiltysparc's version with the Nuln Oil and additional layer of Macragge Blue (our right, the Marine's left). The codpiece and upper body are just plain Macragge Blue. It's a Crimson Fist. It's just not the sapphire blue in the pics above. Under the LED it's just dark and dull. Under natural light, it barely looks blue. I suppose the spray be brighter...but it's wicked expensive and shouldn't it be the same as the paint pot? Isn't that half the point? Well I'll tell you that my Eldar primed with white and painted with Mephiston red are much brighter and vibrant than my Ad. Mech who are Mephiston Red with a black prime. Also the blue in your picture doesn't really look that dark to me to be honest :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4840749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Ed Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 Not seeing it. As I said, it is brighter, right under the light. But it's soooooo dark. Perhaps my highlights are too subtle and its tricking me. I don't know. But I seems much darker to me than yours. I'll try with a grey primer. Maybe that will do it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4840755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
garreth Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 (edited) I use Ultramarine blue from Valejo. Looks like Ultramarine blue from old citadel range. I do black spray basecoat, then macrage blue, then drakenhoff nightshade, then ultramarine blue. I do highlights mixing ultramarines blue (valejo) and electric blue (valejo) first 2:1, second 1:2. And don't forget lahmian medium. Edited August 1, 2017 by garreth Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4841090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pr3Mu5 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Not seeing it. As I said, it is brighter, right under the light. But it's soooooo dark. Perhaps my highlights are too subtle and its tricking me. I don't know. But I seems much darker to me than yours. I'll try with a grey primer. Maybe that will do it. Brother Captain Ed you're not wrong actually. The paint pots of Macragge Blue and the Macragge Blue spray are actually different colours. I was base coating a tonne of minis including vehicles a while ago and had two terminators left over after spraying everything and so hand painted the two termies as I was too impatient to wait to get more spray. The hand painted Macragge Blue is noticeably darker than the sprayed Macragge Blue. I'll try to remember to post a pic tomorrow with one next to the other. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4841104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 I use Testors Cobalt Blue now, because they've always been described as such in the books. I hate the new blue, it's way too dark for me, though I use it as my primer coat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4841183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Ed I love the darker blues. I think you're being too hard on yourself. That being said I do think the spray is very slightly lighter than Macragge blue. Just try a can. It lasts a very long time and makes vehicles so much easier. But I also will tell you there will be a huge difference if you go blue on white primer. Probably more than you want. ronin_cse 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4841243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix01 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 I use Macragge Blue on a Chaos Black undercoat, then shade with Drakenhof Nightshade, then Altdorf Guard Blue (leaving some shaded spots in recesses), then overall wash with Guilliman Blue, then highlight with Calgar Blue with extreme highlight of Blue Horror. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4842126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanial91 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 I airbrush black primer, then pre-highlight with a very light grey primer, they give it an overall light airbrush of Macragge/Mordian blue. Then recess shade with Agrax Earthshade, followed by a selective edge highlight where the blue is brightest, with Calgar Blue Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4842209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder_god Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 I airbrush black primer, then pre-highlight with a very light grey primer, they give it an overall light airbrush of Macragge/Mordian blue. Then recess shade with Agrax Earthshade, followed by a selective edge highlight where the blue is brightest, with Calgar Blue THAT is the look I want! Nathanial91, Prabian and Brother Captain Ed 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4842334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daigo Cannon Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 I have the same problem with Vallejo Ultramarine Blue, I have seen minis in a bright blue that I like a lot, but when I test it in a minit the finis was more of a Pale Purple Blue more fit to novamarines.My formula using Vallejo has been:MC Prussian BlueGC Magic Blue MC Sky Blue Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4843328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoic Raptor Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 That's the look I want too! Nicely done Nathanial. Daigo, yours look nice too but I'm going with Citadel colors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4853151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanial91 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Thanks guys, it took a lot of experimenting to get the way I like, the airbrush does most the hard work and helps get that subtle gradient from top side and the darker undersides. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337459-painting-ultramarine-blue/#findComment-4854704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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