Schlitzaf Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Chapters Master Strategem and Crusade Helm. It's a 3/4 Strategem investment into a character but we make our own Gulliman effectively. And with Rites of War Warlord we have a 9" bubble of reroll hits and ignore battle shock. Is it worth it? I have 9/10 Command Points in my list currently, and I cannot decide. Gulliman whose all the rage is worth x2-x3 my Marshalls points but contrast here is a 6 Command Point Swing. What do you all think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337470-chapter-master-and-crusade-helm/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wolfhart Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 I don't quite get why guilliman adds CP because he's a great tactician and other chapter's greatest tacticians COST CP. But that's because everyone wants to be ultramarine i guess :P I don't think investing 3-4 CP is worth that bonus. Other stratagems are probably more useful over the course of the game and applied as needed. As you have to decide before the game if you want to upgrade, you lack that flexibility. BUT it would be really cool imo :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337470-chapter-master-and-crusade-helm/#findComment-4840608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerhard Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Can you elaborate a little on how we create our own Guilliman? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337470-chapter-master-and-crusade-helm/#findComment-4840618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlitzaf Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 Captain(Marshall) +3 Command Points for Chapter Master Strategem +0/1 Command Point for Crusade Helm Warlord Trait Rites of War Rerolls All and Ignore Battle Shock within 9" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337470-chapter-master-and-crusade-helm/#findComment-4840623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BT_Cennar Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 I don't quite get why guilliman adds CP because he's a great tactician and other chapter's greatest tacticians COST CP. But that's because everyone wants to be ultramarine i guess I don't think investing 3-4 CP is worth that bonus. Other stratagems are probably more useful over the course of the game and applied as needed. As you have to decide before the game if you want to upgrade, you lack that flexibility. BUT it would be really cool imo Never met anyone who wants to be a Smurf , honestly. Who in his/her right mind wants to be a Ultramarine? Zeal? ?None. Light/royal Blue colored armor? =ugly.... could contiue all day. Never got it why GW choosen those as their Poster Boys. Its a GRIMm DARK AGE OF WAR goddamn. Not Hello Kitty.40.000. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337470-chapter-master-and-crusade-helm/#findComment-4840689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebon Hand Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 I think this crosses over into the question of whether we ever want to take a Chapter Master. The High Marshal is pretty friggin good and doesn't cost any command points. However, if you do want to take a Chapter Master, I think that set up for him is not bad if you want some more durable battleshock protection than Cenobites. Schlitzaf 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337470-chapter-master-and-crusade-helm/#findComment-4840733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciler Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Chapter master makes you reroll to hit. Guilliman provides rerolls to hit and wound. I like the idea, but I'm curious to know how you achieve 9CP without minmaxing your units which is a risky gamble. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337470-chapter-master-and-crusade-helm/#findComment-4840765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlitzaf Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337369-black-templars-and-vostroyan-2000/ < That is my list. Not much MSU ironically (as much as you'd think anyways). And I always forget Gulliman rerolls wounds as well Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337470-chapter-master-and-crusade-helm/#findComment-4840776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciler Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 I see. That's 10 CP actually. In that case, why not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337470-chapter-master-and-crusade-helm/#findComment-4840784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlitzaf Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 I said 9 (well 9-10) because I am often taking 2 relics. And I am just uncertain myself sense I rarely have games I don't use all my Command points. That and my list aside was curious on everyone's opanion Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337470-chapter-master-and-crusade-helm/#findComment-4840791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 If you have Helbrecht, you dont need the High Marshal upgrade. But in some cases it can be good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337470-chapter-master-and-crusade-helm/#findComment-4841464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) Captain(Marshall) +3 Command Points for Chapter Master Strategem +0/1 Command Point for Crusade Helm Warlord Trait Rites of War Rerolls All and Ignore Battle Shock within 9" I'm not so sure about that. Crusade Helm boosts the range of abilities on the data sheet. Warlord traits and the Chapter Master stratagem have nothing to do with data sheets. If Helbrecht could take the crusader helm (which as a named character he cannot) then it would boost his reroll abilities since that's on his data sheet, but a Captain promoted to a Chapter Master loses access to the Rites of Battle ability on his data sheet so gains no benefit from a crusader helm. I don't have access to the codex right now so I might be wrong about the wording on the Chapter Master stratagem but warlord traits are definitely not buffed by the Crusader Helm. Things Crusader Helm buffs; Chaplains (both of their separate abilities) Ancients (crusader helm affects the range of abilities, not just buff auras) Techmarines (giving them a 4" range on blessing of the omnissiah) Captains Lieutenants Things it does not buff Abilities granted by relics Abilities granted by warlord traits Librarian psychic hoods (but only because Black Templars can't take librarians) The crusader helm kind of sucks, hopefully it will get errata to make it work how you think it does but by RAW I'd never take it. Edited August 2, 2017 by Closet Skeleton Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337470-chapter-master-and-crusade-helm/#findComment-4841473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciler Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Captain(Marshall) +3 Command Points for Chapter Master Strategem +0/1 Command Point for Crusade Helm Warlord Trait Rites of War Rerolls All and Ignore Battle Shock within 9" Nope. Crusade Helm boosts the range of abilities on the data sheet. Warlord traits and the Chapter Master stratagem have nothing to do with data sheets. If Helbrecht could take the crusader helm (which as a named character he cannot) then it would boost his reroll abilities since that's on his data sheet, but a Captain promoted to a Chapter Master loses access to the Rites of Battle ability on his data sheet so gains no benefit from a crusader helm. Things Crusader Helm buffs; Chaplains (both of their separate abilities) Ancients (crusader helm affects the range of abilities, not just buff auras) Techmarines (giving them a 4" range on blessing of the omnissiah) Captains Lieutenants Things it does not buff Abilities granted by relics Abilities granted by warlord traits Librarian psychic hoods (but only because Black Templars can't take librarians) The crusader helm kind of sucks, hopefully it will get errata to make it work how you think it does but by RAW I'd never take it. It actually does work on a captain promoted to chapter master, because the stratagem reads "replace rites of battle with..." Closet Skeleton 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337470-chapter-master-and-crusade-helm/#findComment-4841479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 the crusaders helm text says: increase any aura ability ... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337470-chapter-master-and-crusade-helm/#findComment-4841522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciler Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 the crusaders helm text says: increase any aura ability ...... on the datasheet. A worlord trait isn't on the datasheet... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337470-chapter-master-and-crusade-helm/#findComment-4841528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 It actually does work on a captain promoted to chapter master, because the stratagem reads "replace rites of battle with..." Then there's a case for that but its still a bit dubious since its still not on the datasheet. Hopefully this will be clarified. the crusaders helm text says: increase any aura ability ... It increases the range of abilities, there's nothing that limits it to passive buffs that get called 'auras' out of convenience. Annoyingly 'aura' is not a general use game term, due to 8th ed being allergic to them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337470-chapter-master-and-crusade-helm/#findComment-4841547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciler Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 It actually does work on a captain promoted to chapter master, because the stratagem reads "replace rites of battle with..." Then there's a case for that but its still a bit dubious since its still not on the datasheet. Hopefully this will be clarified. If you replace something, it means one thing takes the other's place, it is therefore on the datasheet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337470-chapter-master-and-crusade-helm/#findComment-4841565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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