How do you feel about Primaris?

[ERJAK]

I sold most of my other marine stuff so i could by more primaris stuff. Planning on selling a rhino+ land raider to get a second repulsor.

[Ishagu]

I think everyone who dislikes the fluff needs to read Dark Imperium, and not just a summary of events.

 

After reading that book I'm 100% behind GW's direction with th story and development.

[Robbienw]

They still make me feel a bit funny.

 

I don't dislike the fluff so much since reading the codex. Still not great, but I think there is potential in there to make it better and stop Primaris from becoming 1 dimensional super super Marines +1 cause gw need to sell New Coke for increased profits :lol:

 

Not that keen on the design of the models, much prefer the original Marines, though I have come to accept the intercessors and helblasters as not bad after seeing the multi-part kits. The Redemptor Dreadnaught is the exception and is a really cool well designed model.

[defl0]

My biggest issue is that Gene seed was one of the things that made legions interesting.

 

Do primaris still have the Gene seed flaws and boons?

 

If not they are not really son's of their primarchs, which feels very vanilla and weird.

 

I think they just handled the fluff wrong more than anything.

[Adeptus]

 

That is a very different, and far less engaging way to tell a story.

 

My problem with that is that 40K is a setting, not a story. It doesn't need a developing arc, it doesn't get "re-told" every edition, it doesn't go anywhere or do anything, it just is. We set our stories within it.

 

Complaining about the repetitive nature of the grimdark setting is like complaining about the setting of Bernard Cornwell's Sharpe novels or complaining that there's too many cowboys and indians in Western movies, or that there's too many soldiers in Dunkirk. There are certain native elements in any setting that are essential to the stories set within it.

 

To use Dunkirk as an example, since it sort of mirrors the lore we're given for the Primaris marines, imagine if instead of having to conduct a desperate evacuation under fire, the allied forces were saved. By Captain America style super soldiers. Who had been there the whole time, but just hiding. And they just rolled up and curbstompted the Nazis. And there were millions of them. And then they romped around Europe punching Germans in the face and saving the day over and over.

 

Like sure, in the real world that's a great result for the allied soldiers but from a narrative point of view it's just so DULL. 

 

To use a different setting, in the Return of the King the Rohirrim turn up to the fields of Pelennor and realise they're all going to die. There's not enough of them to break the lines of Mordor. But they have to help their friends, so they charge anyway, and it's one of the most thrilling and moving scenes ever committed to film. We see their incredible loss and sacrifice and courage.

 

And the scene is almost instantly devalued mere moments later when Aragorn turns up with the Army of the Dead and this listerine green horde washes over everything and kills every orc on the battlefield in the blink of an eye. The Rohirrim could have had a sleep-in and a late breakfast, avoided the battle altogether, and the result STILL would have been the same.

 

The Primaris are the listerine green horde. 

[Sete]

I think everyone who dislikes the fluff needs to read Dark Imperium, and not just a summary of events.

 

After reading that book I'm 100% behind GW's direction with th story and development.

Yeah I read the book. Not that good.

Its a Guilliman/Ultramarines story.

It does little to the setting overall.

Oh and they describe the Primaris in action being awesome( buy some models).

The best part was really the intro, Guilliman Vs Fulgrim. After that meh.

[Ishagu]

 

I think everyone who dislikes the fluff needs to read Dark Imperium, and not just a summary of events.

 

After reading that book I'm 100% behind GW's direction with th story and development.

Yeah I read the book. Not that good.

Its a Guilliman/Ultramarines story.

It does little to the setting overall.

Oh and they describe the Primaris in action being awesome( buy some models).

The best part was really the intro, Guilliman Vs Fulgrim. After that meh.

Oh c'mon. The only way you'd dislike the book so much is if you can't stand Guilliman being one of the main characters.

 

*Minor Spoilers*

 

 

It was fascinating. The Imperium advancing technologically, the Primarch struggling with the religious beliefs of the Ecclesiarchy, the fact that a lot of the Primaris are OLDER than any living Marine, and are strangers to the setting as much as Guilliman himself is, as they remember the age of the Emperor and the Primarchs.

 

Frankly more interesting and meaningful to the setting than anything that's happened in a long time.

[BlackKnight1239]

Honestly the thing I dislike about the Primaris is the lack of veteran or CC options in more dedicated units.

 

 

But they're great models. The proportions are better, the lines are cleaner, and they have a real weight to the design. Rules wise I think they're fine. I feel like the new Primaris armies are supposed to feel like Space Marine legions rather than the more "modern" Space Marine chapters. It will be nice when they have their own Rhino, that's for sure.

 

I think I love the idea of the clashing ideals of the Imperium. The tension of a transhumanist replacement. Guilliman trying to fill the role of the Emperor, AND Horus. There's a lot of ideas and storyhooks in a setting that has been pretty stale for a long time. 40k is a setting for stories, yes, but telling the same stories is boring, and novelty is an important thing to engage with.

 

I don't think 8th edition would have been more interesting if the 13th Black Crusade was still a thing.

[Kua]

Like 'em, love 'em, want some more of 'em?

No, never, please god spare us!

 

In addition to your reasons I very much dislike the fluff of their introduction, their relationship to real SMs, their appearance out of nowhere with Cowl, and how GW is trying to shove them down our throat with every chapter accepting them etc.

[Kisada]

Well ... I've decided to make them my 2nd army.  

 

The models look amazing ... anyone who likes space marines but doesn't like the look of primaris is fooling themselves.

 

The fluff is debatable.

[The Unseen]

Imagine that, the biggest ultramarine fan-boy I've ever seen liked "Dark Imperium", my world view is shattered. /s

 

I read it, and it was some of the worst writing I've seen, from GW or any other author, in awhile, full of gaping plot holes and plot induced stupidity, and somehow in a whole Galaxy at war, like half a dozen characters are apparently the only thing that actually matter.

 

And I don't even dislike Gman or the Ultras most of the time, just don't care for how heavily GW seems to focus on them. I mean, come on, can we at least get at damn Iron Hands character already?

 

The primaris fluff ranges from usual GW levels of bad, to outright awful, none of it is good or even all that inspired, and it absolutely drips with "marketing" trying to get people to buy buy buy.

 

Planned obsolescence isn't a fun thing for a consumer.

 

Attempts to move the "story" forward and give 40k an arc misses the point of the 40k setting entirely, and have turned a galaxy sized sand box for shared stories into a ham-fisted saturday morning cartoon starring Gman and his new friends, which are just like his old ones, but better in every way.

 

The new models are pretty ok most of the time, bar a couple of weird things, like the reiver ankle armor, freaking skates on the new jump troops, etc.

Nothing really inspiring to me, but that will probably change eventually as they release more.

 

If they had just said, we're revamping the marine line in this new scale, with just a out of universe explanation that they wanted to do the size and superhuman nature of marines justice, so they were giving them all +1 wound and attack and a new line of too scale models, with none of the fluff changes, I'd have been totally on board when I could scrounge up money.

 

As is, nothing except maybe the new dread will I be purchasing.

And that's because its just a big dread, no new fluff required.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

Planned obsolescence isn't a fun thing for a consumer.

 

You're damn right, but unfortunately it's in literally everything. Our furniture, our appliances, our gadgets, everything.

 

The silver lining? GW seems to only implement partial obsolescence. Out of production models can still be used. Just look at how old some models are currently. Until the day that GW actually says we can't use old marines or 25mm metal Terminators, they're still not quite obsolete, merely outdated. I'm sure some of us still have that old Casio calculator watch and other stuff from the 80's before companies built products with planned obsolescence designed into the manufacturing.

[Extropian]

Imagine that, the biggest ultramarine fan-boy I've ever seen liked "Dark Imperium", my world view is shattered. /s

 

I read it, and it was some of the worst writing I've seen, from GW or any other author, in awhile, full of gaping plot holes and plot induced stupidity, and somehow in a whole Galaxy at war, like half a dozen characters are apparently the only thing that actually matter.

 

The primaris fluff ranges from usual GW levels of bad, to outright awful, none of it is good or even all that inspired, and it absolutely drips with "marketing" trying to get people to buy buy buy.

 

Whilst i wouldn't go quite as far as this, it certainly was pretty bad. Very bad in fact. The fluff around the Primaris introduction has genuinely been pretty low quality stuff. In fact, the main line of 40K writing in general has been poor for ages. It has been VERY much "marketing first, story second" since at least the Primarch stuff, and realistically a lot longer than that.

 

On the other hand, i don't care that much. Introducing a whole new scale of marines was ALWAYS going to cause some fairly massive upheaval. Whilst they haven't gone the path i would have preferred, they picked the one they considered best and i can't really say it isn't. People were going to kick off regardless.

 

Eventually Primaris will be normal, and nobody will care anymore about them. Though i expect the writing to still be bad.....

[Ishagu]

I disagree with your opinions completely. There is a lot of terrible 40k fluff that makes no sense, and this isn't it.

[Adeptus]

Well ... I've decided to make them my 2nd army.  

 

The models look amazing ... anyone who likes space marines but doesn't like the look of primaris is fooling themselves.

 

The fluff is debatable.

 

Even the Inceptors? Or as I like to call them, Starfish Marines?

[Extropian]

I disagree with your opinions completely. There is a lot of terrible 40k fluff that makes no sense, and this isn't it.

 

Thats fair. Opinions are like that :)

[Adeptus]

There's always two factors to consider when talking about 40K fiction and that's the setting, and the stories told within it.

 

Almost without exception, the setting has been great. It's an enormous, sprawling mess of a galaxy where you as a player or an author of a Black Library tale can decide the fates of millions, nay, billions of souls without destroying the setting or having your characters get too big for their britches. You can put planets to the sword, you can have enormous alien invasions, kill off the 'good' guys without dooming their entire race, etc etc. And there's a lot to love about the 41st Millennium. The relationship between the Astartes and the mortals, the relationship between everyone in the Imperium  and their technology, the hidden-but-known nature of Chaos and Daemons, the malevolent nature of all the alien species, the lost millennia of history, the mutants and psykers, it's all so fascinating. Navigator houses, freeblade knights, inquisitors, Adeptus Mechanicus struggling to find and 'sequester' technology that's tens of thousands of years old but more advanced than anything they can produce today, the bizarre priorities which see enormous resources expended to recapture a single suit of Dreadnought armour, the mind-boggling scale of the bureaucracy and the totally uncaring nature of the Imperium to it's constituent 'citizens'...

 

It's all so refreshing coming from nearly any other sci-fi universe. Sure, we're used to it, so it doesn't seem as cool to us anymore unless we take a moment to step back and smell the roses, but the setting and lore of 40K is just awesome. Really great, hyperbolic, over-the-top, space-opera, stuff.

 

But the stories within it, whether found in BL books or codexes, tend to have been fairly average. Some are good, I've genuinely enjoyed some of them, but most of the time I need to put on my special '40K book' hat before I can enjoy anything from the Black Library. It tends to be the same for any licensed fiction. Star Wars novels tend to be pretty average, but I still love them because Star Wars, just like I still love BL books. 

[Marshal Reinhard]

I would have much preffered that rather than Primaris, we simply got new bigger marines to replace old kits. I realize what with most of the marine range having relatively new kits, this wasn't gonna be on the table for GW, but the end result is still we now have two types of marines with the latter having fixed long withstanding aesthetical issues that have always plagued marines: they're short, they're squat, they have huge hands and heads. Essentially the fault of heroic scale.

 

If every marine in your army share these traits, they're not nearly as noticeable, but if you suddenly get some that have much more correct proportions and resemble the lore a lot more, the problems of the old marines start to become really really visible. To me that's a big a deal. So I'm not willing to mix and match the units. But the Primaris range is also too limited in its available units (no units with chainswords, really? c'mon) so I won't replace them either. I realize this won't be a problem for people who are willing to mix and match.

 

Another thing that I dislike about the whole thing is that it feels like it put a nail in the coffin for my hopes for new kits for scouts and Terminators. Gravis armor is a poor substitute for terminator armor in aesthetic appeal and well personal attachment for me. I feel nothing for the former while the latter is a very iconic part of the setting.

[Extropian]

I am currently true-scaling Terminators for that exact reason.

 

For scouts i will be using heresy era Recon marines. They look scout sized next to Primaris :)

[Kisada]

 

Introducing a whole new scale of marines was ALWAYS going to cause some fairly massive upheaval. Whilst they haven't gone the path i would have preferred, they picked the one they considered best and i can't really say it isn't. People were going to kick off regardless.

 

 

I agree ... there really was no "right" way for GW to handle the introduction of new scale marines.

 

 

Even the Inceptors? Or as I like to call them, Starfish Marines?

 

 

They aren't my favorite but there are parts of them I really like... I love their jet packs.  I can understand their bulky boots with "jet skis".  Someone online did some Ultramarine ones with custom "astronaut" style helmet visors and they looked amazing.  

http://i.imgur.com/dTaZbBu.png

 

I would have much preffered that rather than Primaris, we simply got new bigger marines to replace old kits. I realize what with most of the marine range having relatively new kits, this wasn't gonna be on the table for GW, but the end result is still we now have two types of marines with the latter having fixed long withstanding aesthetical issues that have always plagued marines: they're short, they're squat, they have huge hands and heads. Essentially the fault of heroic scale.

 

If every marine in your army share these traits, they're not nearly as noticeable, but if you suddenly get some that have much more correct proportions and resemble the lore a lot more, the problems of the old marines start to become really really visible. To me that's a big a deal. So I'm not willing to mix and match the units. But the Primaris range is also too limited in its available units (no units with chainswords, really? c'mon) so I won't replace them either. I realize this won't be a problem for people who are willing to mix and match.

 

Another thing that I dislike about the whole thing is that it feels like it put a nail in the coffin for my hopes for new kits for scouts and Terminators. Gravis armor is a poor substitute for terminator armor in aesthetic appeal and well personal attachment for me. I feel nothing for the former while the latter is a very iconic part of the setting.

 

I'm not willing to mix and match either ... I didn't like how it looked ... so I'll still have my Black Templars and my primaris army will be totally separate. 

[Brother Christopher]

For polling purposes*: I do not like the concept, I kind of like the models (especially the regular ones), but nonetheless find them rather bland in the single armour mark. I also think that they are under-priced (in terms of points) for what they are capable of doing, which bothers the OCD part of my self because I "cannot" use them, but I would like to.

 

If you excuse me, I will get back to my pre-gathering storm safe place and insist on ignoring their existence as much as possible (which is tough because they're all over the place).

 

As such, I will not be buying any Primaris Infantry models in the foreseeable future.

 

 

*I will not go into detail here as I've already done so in a number of threads and want to move forward.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Brother Cristopher

[GenerationTerrorist]

I'm a bit "meh" about them.

Neither love them or hate them. Can't really see me using any of them in my armies, but that is only really because I prefer the units I already have.

[Gerhard]

Honestly, I like them a lot. The models look good, the larger scale is nice, and the lore behind them is acceptable enough for me. It took me a while to truly warm up to the Primaris but the moment GW released the Reivers, I was sold. 

 

Right now I'm focussing on simply matching the new units with my old units and having a blast changing loadouts based on the different core strengths of every squad. Aside from that I really enjoy painting and modelling, and the new Primaris and the lack of custom bits makes for an awesome challenge to make my Primaris fit within my Black Templar army. 

 

So overall... I'm happy. That said, I'd have been happy if they had kept the old models, but I'm also happy now that they are introducing new. 

[Sete]

 

 

I think everyone who dislikes the fluff needs to read Dark Imperium, and not just a summary of events.

 

After reading that book I'm 100% behind GW's direction with th story and development.

Yeah I read the book. Not that good.

Its a Guilliman/Ultramarines story.

It does little to the setting overall.

Oh and they describe the Primaris in action being awesome( buy some models).

The best part was really the intro, Guilliman Vs Fulgrim. After that meh.

Oh c'mon. The only way you'd dislike the book so much is if you can't stand Guilliman being one of the main characters.

 

*Minor Spoilers*

 

 

It was fascinating. The Imperium advancing technologically, the Primarch struggling with the religious beliefs of the Ecclesiarchy, the fact that a lot of the Primaris are OLDER than any living Marine, and are strangers to the setting as much as Guilliman himself is, as they remember the age of the Emperor and the Primarchs.

 

Frankly more interesting and meaningful to the setting than anything that's happened in a long time.

Nah mate that's your assumption.

I liked the book, but it's not that good.

 

It's a good introduction to the new setting, but that's it.

And it sure as hell does not give me 100% behind GW vibe.

 

But there's Guilliman in it, and we know you have a man crush on him ;)

[Blindhamster]

I very much enjoyed it - and was surprised I did. I mean, its no Brent Weeks or Patrick Rothfuss, but it was enjoyable. (Dante was a better novel by Guy though - the pre space marine scenes were excellent)