How do you feel about Primaris?

[Schlitzaf]

I have not read Dark Imperium (in the process currently having slog through the heresy era stuff. I just want to get the Primaris introduction), but Primaris Marines, maybe because they fill an army niche that is exceptionally specific but fits perfectly into my army. Or for being just Space Marine not Terminator/Dreadnought/Rhino Chassis Variant #84, but I am liking them. Their lore is interesting for classic "fish of water" (in a timeline sense), flavor and for being in my mind a meta comment on how useless a base Meq Statline is. The MeQ statline for better or worse has been creeped. And is now outdated. You need more to be viable.

 

So in that regard Primaris have arrived and been the answer. However they are still only a piece of the puzzle. Primaris Units are best used in a combined arms approach alongside Imperius* Marine. Maybe in flavor they are gonna to be outright replacements eventually. But as of August 3rd, they are reinforcements. And will fight alongside their brothers for the Emperor.

 

*Sense Primaris, Primarch, Imperius, Emperor classic Marine. Been trying to find a good word for classic guys.

[Volt]

A swing and a miss in my opinion. Some of the models look really good such as the Gravis Captain or the basic MK X armor used by Intercessors, but I don't like Reivers or Aggressors at all. But combined with lackluster rules and fluff I simply don't have any interest in them, they're just boring. The only Primaris unit I find actually intriguing is Inceptors, but that's because they're ripped straight from Starship Troopers complete with deepstrike from orbital drops without anything but their armor. Like Heru said, I feel they are just a desperate attempt to jack up the prices again, phasing marines out in the future to replace them with the uber expensive and boring Primaris Models with zero customization.

[N1SB]

I'm an Iron Hands and Mechanicum player, sharing my views on Primaris Marines BEFORE and AFTER reading Dark Imperium.

 

BEFORE reading Dark Imperium: I liked the closer-to-True-Scale models, disliked how they were introduced, thus disliked them

 

AFTER reading Dark Imperium*: I like the Primaris now and see them as complements, NOT replacements, to normal Marines

 

+++++

 

The turnaround came from how Dark Imperium didn't build Primaris up...it tore them down, actually made me sympathise with them.  Even Guilliman privately doesn't like them (despite publicly describing them as the "truest heirs of their Primarchs' legacies" in the Warhammer TV teaser/his propoganda), thinking of them and using them as:

 

"blasphemous hordes"

 

We still do not know how Cawl cracked the (genetic) code to make Primaris Marines, but it turns out he's more unconventional than we thought before, so for those of you that think of his Primaris creations as aberrations...you are actually very in-line with the lore.

 

After reading Dark Imperium, the Primaris actually reminded me of 30k World Eaters, who were pretty sympathetic figures.  Churned out quickly, burning out almost as quickly, they just spent on battlefields as if they weren't even weapons, but ammo.  It's not exactly the same, but it made me feel like that.  As a result I don't see Primaris in a bad light anymore.

 

+++++

 

A spoiler-less bottom-line to illustrate how my views on Primaris changed, in-line with the lore of Dark Imperium.  When the Warhammer TV Indomitus Crusade trailer was shown, I basically committed to doing something with Crimson Fists with this promise of reinforcement/rebirth.  Now, a slight change:

 

BEFORE reading Dark Imperium: Crimson Fists with Primaris, because after 7 editions reinforcements at last

 

AFTER reading Dark Imperium*: Crimons Fists with Primaris, but they will NOT allow the Primaris to paint their gauntlets in the ritualistic red of the Chapter, because these Primaris walk among us, but they are not one of us.  That's not saying the whole Chapter's like that, but just my Captain feels they haven't earned the rite of passage.

 

Just a final word on Dark Imperium - this is not an Ultramarine book, it's not even a story book, it's more like a campaign supplement book.  I feel it's what Gathering Storm should've been, a book that lays out the new normal.

[Blindhamster]

To suggest guilliman didn't "like" the primaris is not entirely accurate based on my interpretation of the book, he does indeed use the line

 

"blasphemous hordes"

 

 

But he also views them as the true future of the adeptus astartes, and he favours the primaris over 'regular' marines in terms of whom he chooses to take on as equerry.

I got more of a feeling he neither likes nor trusts cawl, but that the primaris are just new marines, albeit more robust.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Blindhamster

[Firepower]

Well ... I've decided to make them my 2nd army.  

 

The models look amazing ... anyone who likes space marines but doesn't like the look of primaris is fooling themselves.

 

 

The jumpy Tau Primaris are well out of line with the aesthetic, but other than them, the range looks anywhere from decent to great, depending on the unit in question.

 

Bear in mind there are some models in the existing Marine unit choices that are ugly as sin and out of line with the general aesthetic, too.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Firepower

[FerociousBeast]

For the sake of science, I've put together a quick table summarizing our responses to the Primaris Marines so far. Out of curiosity, and to make our data richer, how long have you been in the hobby? I've been in it for 19 years, I believe.

 

LOVE PRIMARIS - 17 votes

Agatone
BlackKnight1239
Blindhamster
Boldthreat
Brother Captain Sirus
ERJAK
Extropian
Gerhard
Grey Wolfe
Ishagu
Kisada
Not 1 Step Backwards
Schlitzaf
Sugarlessllama
TheAngryNomad
Tyberos the Red Wake
War Machine

 

NEUTRAL - 7 votes

Doghouse
Firepower
GenerationTerrorist
Minsc
The Unseen
Ugolino
Wargamer

 

HATE PRIMARIS - 12 votes

Adeptus
Brother Cristopher
Brother Sefiel
Endova
FerociousBeast
Gratan
Heru
Kua
Reinhard
Robbienw
Sdefl0
Volt

 

WISH GW HAD UPSCALED CLASSIC MARINES - 8 votes

Doghouse
FerociousBeast
Gratan
Heru
Reinhard
The Unseen
TheAngryNomad
Wargamer

[Firepower]

I wouldn't call myself 'neutral' so much as 'cantankerously indifferent' ;)

[Blindhamster]

I'd suggest people should state which one of the 4 categories you outlined they'd belong to, only 1 per person.

I've been in the hobby 20 years, close to 21.

[Schlitzaf]

10 Years of active engagement with the hobby, properly around 12-15ish years of investment. (I started going to my LGS and playing regularly when the 4th Ed Chaos Marine Codex dropped. But I had owned models for 3-5 years before that moment).

[Extropian]

About 20 years in the hobby, though a chunk of that was well away from GW (i basically skipped 2 and a half editions). But i was/am playing many other games, so the hobby itself is uninterrupted.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Extropian

[Wargamer]

I have been involved in the hobby for 18 years, roughly.

 

I wouldn't say I'm neutral on Primaris. A more accurate assessment is that my liking them is conditional and limited to certain models and certain interpretations of their lore.

[Firepower]

20+ years here.  I was a wee little nose picker fooling about with 2nd edition Blood Angels, covering them in ludicrously thick layers of paint. :teehee: 

[Robbienw]

25 years.

 

I feel old now.

[Helscream]

The models range from great to terrible. I really like the standard armor on the intercessors and the Hellblasters, I also think the chaplain and dreadnought model are pretty decent. The Reivers are fine but needed better helmets, I don't care what anyone says - you can't scare a man who literally lives with demons with a skull. The aggressors and inceptors models are pretty awful to look at they don't fit the aesthetic even alongside other Primaris. They look off balance and I don't understand the design choice to include a hood on the majority of the models. 

I've been struggling with the fluff since it was announced. I have, like alot of you, had my own fluff that adapts to the changes in the story but in this case GW have gave me no options to adapt my own stuff and have left me quite frustrated by the state of play. I've seen a tons of better ideas posted by members of this and other communities about the ways the Primaris could have been introduced and I can't believe this is what we've ended up with. Even when taking the book into consideration the fluff is rubbish! 

I wish that GW had simply upscaled the classic marines and made a better attempt at the lore. 

Been at the hobby for about 10 years or so. 

 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Helscream

[Heru]

20 years, came in just before 3rd Edition.

[Valdr Fell-fist]

Loving the Primaris. Intercessors, Hellblasters and Inceptors especially. Truly looking forwards to the first dedicated assault unit for Primaris-Reivers are good, don't get me wrong, but they are a harassment unit really.

 

So much so, in fact, that I'm currently working on a full Primaris Chapter, the Void Wardens. Watch this space!

 

Been in the hobby just shy of fifteen years now...where's the time gone, eh?

[Brother Captain Sirus]

I would say i was neutral rather than loving primaris, the new models look fine, havent read any of the lore about them further than they turned up and heres why, but that was enough to explain their appearance.

 

I would love to have MKIX armour released with stalker boltguns for standard marines but thats about as likely as seeing sounds and hearing colours, so i'm not going to worry.

 

And I've been in the hobby 15 years.

 

On an slightly alternate note as i have got the units i need to play 40k ultras with multiple list variations i am probably going to start building some 30k units as i'm not yet ready to stop painting blue, and i'm only tempted to pick up aggressors.

 

** I have put my 30k thread below, as i wouldnt like to derail this one, and any advice for units for 30k will happily be taken in that thread.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337571-10000-years-seperate-but-useable/

[N1SB]

24 years technically, muddling through 1st ed 40k rules, lapsed for many years.

[deathspectersgt7]

27 years . They are ok  model wise . But they seem lazy and no power swords or chainswords for Sgts is beyond lame . IT Seems the Studio did not think this out and the Book Dark Imperium was ok but what do want for a rally the troops behind these Wannabe Marines .

[Marshal Reinhard]

Eh I don't hate Primaris as much as I don't want them in my army. This is more due to visual elements of old marines. It's kind of how i don't have boxnaughts even though I don't dislike that model at all.

 

Maybe if I ever make a second marine army, that one may have (only) primaris.

 

EDIT: as for how long? Probably 25+ with one really long hiatus.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Reinhard

[Doghouse]

If it helps 30 years for me for 40k but more like 33 if you mean GW in general.

 

That is scary to see in text...

 

The designs are growing on me but still feel bland, mass produced and uninspired, they feel like 40k Sigmarites in aesthetics to me personally right now. I am persevering though and I'm working on four chapters of them using different army compositions and play styles for each that might change my mind eventually.

[Race Bannon]

Disclosure: I was one of those self-righteous that declared the leak was a conversion. The truth still hurts a corner of my pride considering I've been with this hobby for 29 years (25 continuously).

 

Having said that, I am mostly neutral to their existence and utterly ambivilant about their fluff. My druthers would be that GW has a fire sale on all their existing supply and just upscale the line requiring a robot of everything else.

 

To put another way for me, Primaris are to 40 as the Clans are (were) to Battletech. To me, the Clans were an unnecessary addition to the game, yet the game company declared the story needed advancing (or that the current story was stagnant). I stopped playing Battletech for other reasons but that was the start. Will I do the same to 40k? No, it's different this round, because Primaris are not so strong compared to everything else that they *must* be used to win a game. But the feeling is similar.

[FerociousBeast]

I think the biggest problem for me is that by simply introducing the Primaris Marines the way they did, we've closed a door on the past 20 years of Space Marine fluff. The future simply can't look like it used to. For some people that's probably a great thing, for others, like me, it's a problem. For 20 real-life years, a battle company has consisted of 6 Tactical Squads, 2 Assault Squads, and 2 Devastator Squads. Robot Girlyman set this down in writing 10,000 years ago and the Astartes have by and large held to it. Now we've *poof* got these weird, tactically inflexible, aesthetically divergent marines who have just been hanging out waiting for 10 millennia or so.

 

You could have another story development whereby the Primaris have finally gotten their training wheels taken off and they are incorporated into the mainline squads, taking up the wargear and options of the traditional squads, but GW would still have to support the new squads. Once you introduce something, it's HERE for better or worse (c.f. Dreadknight, Centurions, Draigo v. Mortarion, etc.).

 

I like the scale of the new marines. I love the thicker waists and legs, I like the more realistic heads and hands, I like that the poses are no longer the sprawled leg, stretching poses we've put up with for so long. But I don't like the new units. I particularly don't like the Inceptors or Aggressors, and I don't think they look like marines. I don't like the new names. We used to have names that drew from classic literature, but these new names are meaningless and have zero resonance. I really dislike the fluff.

 

And as I mentioned in the OP, I hate that the whole thing is so transparently driven by business goals. Obviously GW is a company and obviously it has to make profitable decisions with its game systems, but you have to do a better job of aligning your creative decisions with your business goals. Creative ideas should be developed apart from business goals, and then JUDGED by the business goals before being green-lit. Instead we seem to have business directives given to the creative team, with the command to "figure out some way to justify it." Even this could work, in theory, but it didn't work this time around.

 

(I'll update the votes of those who think I misinterpreted them when I compile the data next.)

Edited August 5, 2017 by FerociousBeast

[Doghouse]

To put another way for me, Primaris are to 40 as the Clans are (were) to Battletech. To me, the Clans were an unnecessary addition to the game, yet the game company declared the story needed advancing (or that the current story was stagnant). I stopped playing Battletech for other reasons but that was the start. Will I do the same to 40k? No, it's different this round, because Primaris are not so strong compared to everything else that they *must* be used to win a game. But the feeling is similar.

 

That's pretty much it in a nutshell for me as far as Primaris go as I had the same experience with Battletech. I gave the Clans a go, didn't real feel it and slowly watched the game go in a direction that I wasn't interested in as the tech was advanced, hopefully this won't be the same case with the rise of the Primaris.

[templargdt]

Not a fan, but it keeps gw in business.