tyranic war vets

[greatcrusade08]

So a delve into the rule section of the codex tells me the TWV don't really have any real rules again in this edition.

I was lucky enough to stumble on an old project I started last year but packed away and forgot about (struggling with pics atm, will do later)

How would you guys represent/run TWVs in the rules, which units, sternguard again?

 

discuss...

[Kallas]

They are in Index: Imperium 1.

[greatcrusade08]

doesn't codex replace the index though?

[Grotsmasha]

Only for units IN the Codex :tu:

[greatcrusade08]

Well that's not confusing at all .. now I have to buy an index dammit

[Schultzhoffen]

Don't bother. They have virtually no special rules and (to me) sternguard are much better.

[Toxichobbit]

The Index also has rules for the Imperial Space Marine, Terminus Ultra, Legion of the Damned and various weapon options (most bike characters, Honour Guard weapons, Dreadnought weapons) that aren't in the Codex. If you're going to be using anything like that it's worth picking up.

 

Don't bother. They have virtually no special rules and (to me) sternguard are much better.

 

I can't agree with this. Sternguard have more options and are more suitable for general use, while Tyrannic War Vets are more suitable against Tyranids (as it should be).

 

Both units have the same stats, the same basic wargear and the same points value (before upgrades). Note that you use the cost for the special issue boltgun from Codex: Space Marines, rather than the more expensive one in the Index. So while Tyrannic War Vets aren't in the Codex, the Codex did make them (and Sternguard) cheaper.

 

They loose out to Sternguard for options, as they can't take melee (on Vet Sarge), combi, special or heavy weapons. IMO only the combi-weapons and heavy flamer really matter here as there are much better sources of melee, special and heavy weapons. The second thing Sternguard have is the Masterful Marksmanship stratagem, but as that only applies to their special issue boltguns (only during the shooting phase) it's not very compatible with the point above. If you're spending 1CP for a stratagem that requires a specific unit armed with a specific weapon, you want to have a decent amount of that weapon. If you are using special issue boltguns then it's a great stratagem that Tyrannic War Vets can't make use of.

 

On the other side, the Tyrannic War Veterans have Guilliman's buff all the time against Tyranids. That's better than the Sternguard's stratagem, applies to any shooting (including Overwatch) and melee while not costing any CPs to activate. That clearly makes Tyrannic War Vets better than Sternguard (sans combi-weapons) against Tyranids. A small aside is that they have a minimum unit size of 4, which is occasionally relevant for fitting into transports alongside other units (eg, 10 man squad + Tyrannic War Vets in a Land Raider Crusader).

 

So, if you want combi-weapons (or are desperate to field heavy flamers on infantry) then Sternguard are better. If you don't want to go combi heavy then Sternguard are better for general use (if you use the stratagem) while Tyrannic War Vets outclass them against Tyranids. This does mean that Tyrannic War Vets don't have a place in an all comers list, but rather are at home in a list tailoring/thematic environment. I don't have a problem with this, there would be something very wrong if the Tyrannic War Vets were better than Sternguard for general use.

 

Edit: I should also add that given the increased cost of combi-weapons and the fact that the bolter half has the standard bolter profile, rather than the Sternguard specific special issue bolter profile, I'm finding that I don't want combi heavy Sternguard as often. If I want the anti-infantry of bolters then the special issue boltgun is superior (and Marine armies are generally overflowing with bolters anyway). If I want a chunk of one specific special weapon then Command Squads are a better and cheaper source than combi Sternguard. I'm finding in this edition I'm mainly taking Sternguard as a cheaper, more offensive but less survivable version of Intercessors. A unit that can sit back on objectives and pump our solid anti-infantry firepower at 30". Against Tyranids, the Tyrannic War Vets are demonstrably better at this, so for me it's an easy choice. All comers - Sternguard. Thematic against Tyranids - Tyrannic War Veterans.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Toxichobbit