The problem with Dreadknight HQs...

[SickSix]

So the 8th Ed. C:SM codex is released and lo and behold that many options have been removed becuase GW doesn't sell a model out of box with those options. Arguably the worst exemple of this is Kor'sarro Khan on bike.

 

Then, we find out that Grey Knights will now be able to field Grand Masters in Dread Knights as HQ choices.... (oh boy)

Oh so that must mean they are releasing a model for that right?

 

NOPE! But the next White Dwarf will have an article on how to KITBASH one!

 

What in the actual :cuss: is going on?

[Arkangilos]

Well, I would say we were wrong about the no model rule, or that it's easy enough to kitbash one that it doesn't really matter.

[Sete]

My man, cause the Khan will be pimping a Primaris jetbike in the near future. I assume all the IC will be upgraded to Primaris. Jubal Khan is probably dead, so guess who's going to be the new WS CM?

[That Guy Matt]

I think the difference is that while you can convert a Grand Master Dreadknight, you can also use the model out of the box and it would still be fit for purpose.

 

You couldn't however use the Kor'sarro Khan on foot model and claim he's on a bike.

[Endova]

You couldn't however use the Kor'sarro Khan on foot model and claim he's on a bike.

What frustrates me is that if I really wanted Khan on Moondrakkan bad enough I'd buy a Space Marines bike, I'd buy a Space Marine Commander and either the White Scars upgrade kit or a Khan to scavenge for bits, all just so I could convert this model and still have tons of cool bits leftover.

[Ranwulf]

I think the difference is that while you can convert a Grand Master Dreadknight, you can also use the model out of the box and it would still be fit for purpose.

 

You couldn't however use the Kor'sarro Khan on foot model and claim he's on a bike.

If anyone can run that fast it would be a White Scar.

 

Ran

[Captain Idaho]

I'd like GW to bring back bits purchasing. It would encourage conversion work and they could expand on it to have bits not found in the kits etc.

 

It would mean they could release loads and loads of options for stuff and not worry about Chapter House escapades.

 

Besides, it's undermining Forge World in some ways to not add options they produce kits for. Examples being Cataphractii Terminator weapons or Dreadnought weapons.

[Yodhrin]

I think the difference is that while you can convert a Grand Master Dreadknight, you can also use the model out of the box and it would still be fit for purpose.

 

You couldn't however use the Kor'sarro Khan on foot model and claim he's on a bike.

 

No, but you can just buy a bike guy and claim he's Khan. It's no more "counts-as" than a non-converted Dreadknight would be.

 

And the OP is right, the stuff in WD(not just the DK article - the Primaris conversions article too) just makes the removal of(or lack of any) options even more annoying, since the only real logic anyone could think of to explain it goes out the window.

[sockwithaticket]

I'd like GW to bring back bits purchasing. It would encourage conversion work and they could expand on it to have bits not found in the kits etc.

 

It would mean they could release loads and loads of options for stuff and not worry about Chapter House escapades.

 

Besides, it's undermining Forge World in some ways to not add options they produce kits for. Examples being Cataphractii Terminator weapons or Dreadnought weapons.

It seems like they've been trying to eradicate FWs dread line for a while (desperately sad from my pov, love those mk. IVs and the cool weapon options, most of which have disappeared now)

[That Guy Matt]

 

I think the difference is that while you can convert a Grand Master Dreadknight, you can also use the model out of the box and it would still be fit for purpose.

 

You couldn't however use the Kor'sarro Khan on foot model and claim he's on a bike.

 

No, but you can just buy a bike guy and claim he's Khan. It's no more "counts-as" than a non-converted Dreadknight would be.

 

 

A fair point. The difference I would say is between a named character and a generic character.

[sockwithaticket]

Well, I would say we were wrong about the no model rule, or that it's easy enough to kitbash one that it doesn't really matter.

The underlined could be said about an awful lot of the stuff that came out of the marine codex. People haven't exactly struggled to make various types of bike HQ now no longer permitted or Honour Guard models without axes through kitbashing. Perhaps a little more tricky would be some of the dread weapons (unless buying FW) or Razorback turrets, but I've seen plenty of handily converted las-plas 'backs and heavy flamer or Autocannon dreads made out of readily available GW bits.

 

*sigh*

 

Which just leaves bafflement and bewilderment as to what they're playing at.

[Doghouse]

What I think it is they are trying to do is a bit like using a regular knight model as a household Baron or King.

 

So a GKDK model that you just paint to be your grand master with the same weapon options as a regular GKDK but an improved stat line.

 

I think the conversion article is to give you ideas on how to make it stand out a bit more but the conversion side is down to you.

[Kinstryfe]

As said, I think this is all about giving some optional ideas for people to convert the kit to look more like an HQ. It's along the lines of "Use claws from the plastic Spawn kit to make your Daemon Prince of Slaanesh look more Slaaneshey." Looks cool, easy to do, but overall optional because it isn't necessary, it's purely an aesthetic option to represent something which already has a valid model kit with a little more panache. Not quite the same as "Buy and chop up two kits to create one or you can't use it at all" like some extreme examples would be.

[KBA]

The no model no rules thing ticked me off a few years ago, but the whole no war gear options with the Primaris is a whole new level. Such a huge drawback in an otherwise great edition. Awful decision.

[Closet Skeleton]

 

 

People haven't exactly struggled to make various types of bike HQ now no longer permitted or Honour Guard models without axes through kitbashing.

 

Which just leaves bafflement and bewilderment as to what they're playing at.

 

 

I can kind of see what GW is doing with honour guard. They're trying to stealthily remove a redundant unit while technically keeping some official models legal. The Index's honour guard already destroyed the viability of anyone's converted units.

 

Honour guard were a cool versatile option in 5th-7th edition but they were far from a piece of well designed internal balance. They just tread on the toes of terminators and vanguard a bit too much and with apothecaries becoming separate would have just been company veterans+ in many ways.

 

Its annoying to the few people who used honour guard but they would have been top of the list if I was cutting units.

[Extropian]

The problem with Dreadknight HQs.....

 

....is that they look as dumb as other Dreadknights :D

[A.T.]

What in the actual : is going on?

Removed models from the SM book would have been competing with the primaris, at a time when GW is looking to phase out the old, smaller line.

 

GK on the other hand are not going primaris at this point in time, haven't had a model release since 5th ed (aside from the might as well have been kitbashed Voldus), and aren't looking likely for a model release until they to are primaris-ed.

So they are being thrown a bone (doesn't hurt that it promotes sales of the new Voldus model). Probably all they will get for some time.

[Toxichobbit]

I think people forget that the Marine Codex has an entry for a Captain on a bike and a Lieutenant. This isn't a new thing for Grey Knights. Marines got two datasheets that could only be made by converting/kitbashing as well. So to decry GW for the NDKGM seems a little strange when the very Codex that people are complaining about loosing options because they aren't sold as kits, had options that aren't sold as kits. I get that people are annoyed at GW for removing options for models that don't have kits from the Codex (I agree), but it's a bit late to get all rightous about the NDKGM when it's just following on from the precident already established in C:SM.

 

As for why you can no longer give Honour Guard other weapons, or put various Marine characters on a bike, I think the "official" reason is that the design team only include stuff that can be made by kitbashing two GW kits together. It seems to follow that pattern so far and the guys on WHTV said pretty much the same thing during a recent battle report. Dreadnought weapon options require FW. The various Marine characters require cutting up a Librarain/Techmarine/Chaplain etc to fit them onto a bike. Honour Guard would require you to chop off the axes and glue on new weapons. A Marine Captain on a bike just requires the multi-pose Captain and a bike, the NDKGM just requires a Dreadknight and some bling from GK Terminators. Now we all know that any of these can be made by a savy modeller combining parts to make his or her own Honour Guard or a bespoke Chaplain on a bike, but from GW's perspective they're looking at what can be made from just two official kits sold by GW main without someone having to do more advanced stuff like cut, pin or sculpt.

 

Of course, that reasoning falls apart when you think of Company Veterans, Apothecary and Company Ancient on bikes, as they can literally be made by taking a Command Squad box and kitbashing it with some Bikes. I guess technically you need more than two boxes (cos you require multiple bike boxes) but that seems like really flimsy reasoning. The truth is probably something more complex, like a combination of the official reason plus the need to drop some units to keep Codex page size down, keep Dark Angels more unique, put more resources into promoting Primaris etc.

[xanthate]

So the 8th Ed. C:SM codex is released and lo and behold that many options have been removed becuase GW doesn't sell a model out of box with those options. Arguably the worst exemple of this is Kor'sarro Khan on bike.

 

Then, we find out that Grey Knights will now be able to field Grand Masters in Dread Knights as HQ choices.... (oh boy)

Oh so that must mean they are releasing a model for that right?

 

NOPE! But the next White Dwarf will have an article on how to KITBASH one!

 

What in the actual : is going on?

 

You can always use the datasheet from Index : Imperium I for Kor'sarro Khan on Moondraken /shrug

[Sete]

Following the Grandmaster on Dreadknight example GW could easily add a Aquilla Commander as HQ for the Custodes.

Bling him up with a cape and an Iron Halo. Boom.

Inquisitorial StormTroopers, can be easily done aswell.

Just cut the power cabling from the hot shot guns MD cut the antenna and lantern thingie.

I have done mine like that. Shame the Acolytes can use carapace armour now.

 

Hopefully these small but awesome options can be added in the future.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Sete

[Biscuittzz]

The problem with Dreadknight HQs.....

 

....is that they look as dumb as other Dreadknights

 

OT I know but how big is a dreadknight compared to the new Redemptor dread? Wouldn't mind using them as counts-as dreadknights, should be easy to convert aswell.