Whiners about Astra Militarum

[TheShredder]

 

Increase plasma guns from 7 to 10, increase Scion cost by a point or two per model, make Conscripts a 0-1 choice = all complaints addressed?

 

I would say it depends on which guard on the plasma myself, some guard is expencive enough that the plasma being 7 is okay i would say (eg elysian or krieg)

 

Rest of it, yeah, would make some sense, the scions do seem cheap, especially compared to other "specialist troops" across the guard dex's (same price as grenadiers for example)

 

 

 

To be honest, Scions only seem cheap (relative to their effectiveness) when they're touting plasmaguns. Most other weapons leave them either average or lacklustre. 

[FallenSoldiers]

I love having lots of bodies on the table! It's what lured me to Guard in the first place! If our flashlights don't kill you, you'll drown in our blood!

 

I think it's a matter of the edition is still too new and people are still playing 7th style and armies. I've seen some things that were neigh unstoppable in 7th rolled over in turn 1, and I've seen Ork lists that wouldn't have even been anything but a joke poo-poo-ing all over armies.

 

I love the need for tactics now. Sure, model spacing is gone because of templates but you still need to consider how to protect your characters. Orders are huge again, but I only ever see maybe 3 of them being used. Conscripts are amazing at being hundreds of cheap shots, but will crumble so quickly if you can remove their support.

 

All of that makes me LOVE to play my guard. I've all but shelved my Emperor's Children because they're just not as fun right now. I win maybe 50% of my games with Guard but I have a BLAST 100% of the time!

[wulfgar hammerfist]

Model spacing has evolved to unit spacing. It is still very important to space your squads in such a manner as to limit the damage a dedicated assault squad can do. I am absolutely terrified by berserker rhino rush, especially with the possibility of them swinging three times. A well executed multi charge could remove whole sections of a gunline's defensive infantry.

[NatBrannigan]

That swinging 3 times, with I assume 3 pile ins, is going to be horrible... I keep finding my tanks in combat because I had them just a little too close to a screening unit. They pile in and bam, no overwatch for me. Something I need to work on clearly. If those 'zerkers are moving 9" AFTER they've charged as they pile in 3 times I don't know how to keep them away from my more valuable stuff. Looking forward to figuring it out though!

 

I think the fact that Guard are never going to be getting the first turn is a decent equaliser. I've never seized and I've always had more units to place than my opponent. that means I need to suffer through deep striking units, having the enemy move into cover, getting off those defensive psychic powers etc before I can do anything every game.

 

Imperial Guard underpowered bla bla!

[Halfpint100]

I know I am not getting T1 with guard. I just have to weather the storm and go from there

[oldmanlee]

It's not the whiners that bother me it's the bandwagon jumpers that get me ticked off

[CoffeeGrunt]

Personally I haven't been playing a massive amount due to free time, but generally I'm getting 1-2 games a week on average. Mostly with my new 'Nids collection. I'm finding with that army that people can take apart big stuff pretty easily, but a blob of Fearless trash tends to be more bodies than they have shots, more often than not. Most people are trying to spam high AP, high Dam weapons which means they struggle against hordes who can win through attrition and sneak heavy hitting characters in their ranks.

[NatBrannigan]

Yep,

 

People are essentially moaning because their 30 Lascannon army can't kill hordes... So take a mix of weapons maybe? Just an idea.

[TheShredder]

I love having lots of bodies on the table! It's what lured me to Guard in the first place! If our flashlights don't kill you, you'll drown in our blood!

 

Just wanted to say that I too love this approach. I always find armies with a lot of bodies on the table to be the most fun to play and also the most fun to play against. 

[CoffeeGrunt]

Not so much during movement phases or while waiting for your opponent to roll a bucket of dice, but damn if it don't look more impressive on the table.

[wulfgar hammerfist]

Movement trays go a long way towards speeding up the movement phase. It's hard enough to get a cover save in 8th as is. Putting 30 grunts in cover is difficult at best. I also have small dice pre-sorted for each blob to speed up shooting for them. My general scheme of manuever is decided at the start of the game regardless of what my opponent is doing. That also speeds up game play as I'm generally thinking at least one turn ahead. The only real decisions I have to make are with my artillery targets.

[CoffeeGrunt]

I really don't like movement trays personally. Reminds me too much of Fantasy and how stiff the movement felt.

[wulfgar hammerfist]

That's understandable but when you're moving 120+ guys a turn it really speeds things up. They make clear ones now that don't look as bad.

[Mitchverr]

Also depends on what kind of army you run i guess, if your doing something like praetorian or iron guard, forming ranks looks impressive, and gives "first rank second rank" a more realistic feel ^^

[CoffeeGrunt]

Mine are more loose and skirmishy. I get that it fits certain styles, but it reduces the game to pushing squares around. Just my personal taste, IMO the best thing that happened to Fantasy was deranking it.

[Withershadow]

Pushing squares around is how battles used to work, fantasy was great in that regard, it made movement extremely tactical.

[Tirak]

Cain style mechanized infantry and Gaunt style light infantry are my preferred ways to guard, so big regimental blocks just feel wrong.

[NatBrannigan]

I have 5x5 movement trays for all my Praetorian Infantry Squads now. They just look so right with (most of... damn lack of kneeling legs) the front rank kneeling. As soon as templates went away I got some and it really speeds up my movement (5 squads). I can always just move them off the tray to go through a narrow gap or squeeze into cover.

 

I've now got 30 Genestealer Cultists that I'm going to be putting Cadian Heads on and using as Conscripted Miners (My terrain is volcanic and mining themed) and these won't have a movement tray though. I want a looser feel to them. I won't use any more than 30 conscripts in a game so it's not a massive issue.

 

I'd be fine with conscripts becoming a 0-1 option myself. Maybe also say they don't take up a Detachment slot so they don't count towards your troop choices.

[duz_]

I have 5x5 movement trays for all my Praetorian Infantry Squads now. They just look so right with (most of... damn lack of kneeling legs) the front rank kneeling. As soon as templates went away I got some and it really speeds up my movement (5 squads). I can always just move them off the tray to go through a narrow gap or squeeze into cover.

 

Pics of Praetorians on these trays? :D

[NatBrannigan]

I can do that! Currently getting a carpet fitted and new furniture bla bla but if I can run the assault course to my cabinets I'll get a pic up. I don't have enough kneeling guys painted but you'll get the Idea. I can also send a pic of my Pith Helmet wearing Bullgryns now all the parts have arrived. No tray for them though.

 

I don't know if trays would reduce whining though. Is the real problem the time taken to move numerous Guard Infantry or is it the tabletop power of conscripts? Just typing that last bit sounds stupid, they're conscripts! Hardly a Land Raider full of Custodes are they...

[Die4Emprah]

Yeah, it's a classic case of "I don't have that, so I'm upset.."
They're soft, squishy, with a huge achilles heel (Kommissar), but since a lot of people are still trying to deathstar, they literally complain about one of the few things we can do better than any other armies : Die. We can die all day. 
I don't want one giant model with 15 wounds, I want 150 tiny models with 1 wound each. 

 

I know for a fact that I could crush my own (conscript) guard army with my space marine army, so I don't feel the slightest bit of guilt about how I litter the table with cheap wounds. 

[Withershadow]

I can do that! Currently getting a carpet fitted and new furniture bla bla but if I can run the assault course to my cabinets I'll get a pic up. I don't have enough kneeling guys painted but you'll get the Idea. I can also send a pic of my Pith Helmet wearing Bullgryns now all the parts have arrived. No tray for them though.

 

I don't know if trays would reduce whining though. Is the real problem the time taken to move numerous Guard Infantry or is it the tabletop power of conscripts? Just typing that last bit sounds stupid, they're conscripts! Hardly a Land Raider full of Custodes are they...

At first you had my curiosity, but now you have my attention.  Pith helmets for Bullgryns, you say?  I need a way to Kriegify these suckers, where did you source them?

[NatBrannigan]

Cracking film that, just know that I will now be reading all your future posts in a strong American Southern Gentleman's accent.

 

I got them from Curious Constructs, that are now sold through Kirton Games. Lots of Praetoriany conversion bits there including a 5 pack of (very well fitting) Pith Helmet Ogryn / Bullgryn heads, 5 for £5. I suppose with a bit of filing and an added spike on top they could look nice and Kreigy. 

 

I'd put a link here but I can't actually copy text into this box...

[Withershadow]

By all means, sir, I'm your huckleberry.

 

Found the site. Thanks for the tip, though it seems they are currently sold out. And I remember Curious Constructs having a far larger selection.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Withershadow

[NatBrannigan]

Damn... I was hoping to get some more myself.