Did the new Codex or Edition completely nerf a unit/'s ?

[Timur]

Just rhuminizing (<--word now), I haven't studied the codex and edition rules like a bible yet, but I haven't noticed anything become irrelevant.  Have you all?

 

Oh, and we all have to come to terms with blast and other templates being gone so let's not just hate on units we have to adjust to.

 

Looking at you Vindicator, Thunderfire, Whirlwind.

[Brother Captain Sirus]

So far i've found that most units are viable, some of which havent been for a long time, which is good.

 

The only thing that i havent been impressed with so far is the grav cannon but thats due to fighting lots of orks and horde nids so it hasnt had a chance to shine.

[Firepower]

Some point changes really hurt.  Centurion Devastators and Storm Talons, for instance.  But a lot more has been improved than weakened.  Net gain.

[Ciler]

Centurion devastators needed the point increase, with a captain and a lieutenant they were ludicrously strong. A friend of mine was at a regional tournament last weekend, his list was essentially guilliman, lieutenant and 6 devastator cents (heavy bolter and missile launchers) and he just wrecked everything that was thrown at him. I mean these can dish up to (in a best case scenario arguably) 54 wounds with the missiles only... while moving... and ignoring cover.

 

Now sure this isn't international tournament standards, but he did take down 2 stormraven in a single turn.

[Firepower]

Yeah, I can see why they need to be pricey, but they are countered relatively easily to other fire support.  It seems like if you want to use them, they become a maypole for the rest of the list to revolve around.

[Race Bannon]

Frankly, it's list-building like the example above that may have helped GW increase the unit's cost.  That's conspiratorial of course, yet is it beyond reality?  Maybe.  Still the points hike for Dev Cents, in a way, did "nerf" them from lists.  Inherently, they are still a good unit, but their price point has removed them from a lot of consideration.

 

Otherwise, I'm not seeing a unit would rather not use because of their rules ... cost is the driver for me.

[Firepower]

Didn't Thunderfires lose some of their magic from 7th edition?  Their pricing is bizarre, too.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Firepower

[Race Bannon]

Yes, but I classify that unit as "streamlined".  Any unit's reliance on templates previously has received a shock, so to speak.  To me, the Thunderfire is more likely to be used by me now.  Not in every list of course.

[Firepower]

Ugh, that reminds me.  Vindicators.

 

Well, they've gotten a mixed bag, really.  Cover isn't nearly as big an issue as it used to be, for instance.  I had multiple moments where a template on 10 Guardsmen killed 1, because of cover.  They can't be chain stunned or anything like that, so you can always fire.  But now they feel more like an odd anti-monster/anti-tank cannon than a horde slaughtering behemoth.  Better served targeting a chunk of high toughness models than a big mob of 30 Orks.

 

Net gain?  Kinda...they're just so different now it's hard to say.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Firepower

[Timur]

Agreed, so far nothing seems worthless, or ridiculously overpriced.  That was why I was wondering what I was missing.  Seeing as this is GW after all.

 

The template loss is game system wide.  I really don't like rolling for shots (dice hate me), but I still love my conversion beamer.  I've read a few posts where people have started to get their heads around templates (like thunderfire), and they are working fine.  So maybe a nerf, but to every army.  Or maybe just a little different now.

 

How bout the primaris assault centurian clones?  Forgot their name.  Weaker but cheaper assault centurians?  Never used them, and haven't seen a post on using them.  They look cheaper to load out , but their weapons are eh.

[Firepower]

Aggressors.  They look like Centurions, but have rather different jobs and stats.  Squishier, rather purely anti-infantry (where Cents can be built to tackle anything), but cheaper and with power fists for giggles.  They get that shooting bonus for standing still, but their weapons are so close range that I wonder how often they'll get the chance without someone charging to tie them up instead.

 

My main issue with them is how ridiculously hard it will be to magnetize them :P

Edited August 4, 2017 by Firepower

[NatBrannigan]

Your template weapons will just take some getting used to. It's the same with Guard. All the Leman Russ tanks that used to be good at one thing, are now ok at something completely different!

 

Codex looks really good to me, everything nicely balanced against everything else.

[bolvar]

Assault Squads.

 

Why would you get them when paying 2 extra points per model you can get vanguard veterans, with an extra attack, better LD, and every wargear option that assault squads have and more?

[Firepower]

Assault Squads.

 

Why would you get them when paying 2 extra points per model you can get vanguard veterans, with an extra attack, better LD, and every wargear option that assault squads have and more?

 

To avoid burning up those precious Elite slots?

[HenricusTyranicus]

Thunderfire cannons actually look very interesting to me, with the stratagem. Locking down an elite assault unit for 1 command point, allowing you to rapidfire them to shreds and get the charge almost 100% of the time? Where do I sign up?

[Ciler]

 

Assault Squads.

 

Why would you get them when paying 2 extra points per model you can get vanguard veterans, with an extra attack, better LD, and every wargear option that assault squads have and more?

 

To avoid burning up those precious Elite slots?

 

Actually, the opposite is also true, if you need one more elite slot, you might as well take VV.

 

Also, VV have the added perk that they can forego entirely ranged firepower and trade their bolt pistol for a second chainsword, which gives them a wooping 4 attacks at the same price.

[KhorneHunter57x]

 

Assault Squads.

 

Why would you get them when paying 2 extra points per model you can get vanguard veterans, with an extra attack, better LD, and every wargear option that assault squads have and more?

 

To avoid burning up those precious Elite slots?

 

Vanguard Veterans in a Vanguard Detachment.

[Race Bannon]

IF you play that Detachment.  Otherwise, the current "strength" for taking AM is their role.

[Firepower]

The one unit that I really want to be worth its inflated price is a Talon with Lascannons.  195 points, but I actually have the models and I need AT fire support :(

[Brother Captain Sirus]

Agreed, so far nothing seems worthless, or ridiculously overpriced.  That was why I was wondering what I was missing.  Seeing as this is GW after all.

The template loss is game system wide.  I really don't like rolling for shots (dice hate me), but I still love my conversion beamer.  I've read a few posts where people have started to get their heads around templates (like thunderfire), and they are working fine.  So maybe a nerf, but to every army.  Or maybe just a little different now.

 

How bout the primaris assault centurian clones?  Forgot their name.  Weaker but cheaper assault centurians?  Never used them, and haven't seen a post on using them.  They look cheaper to load out , but their weapons are eh.

Aggressors for all their weaponry seems low str its the amount the unit can put out thats makes them good.

 

I proxied a 5 man unit and they performed brilliant, i took auto boltstorm/fragstorm dakka build, in the 2 turns they were on the board the single handedly took out 40 ork boys, a nob with waaagh banner and wounded a warboss, and were only taken out when they were charged by 20 boys, a nob with waaagh banner and 2 warbosses.

 

They shot, overwatched, CC'd, fell back and shot (Ultramarines CT), Overwatched then CC'd some more due to interupting melee turns. As you can see they became the number 1 target priority and were demolished, but thanks to their performance no other unit had taken any damage except 2 wounds on a land raider.

[Ebon Hand]

I have been scrutinising assault squads since I use them a lot and it seems their best role is being a fast attack slot on foot.

 

The cost disparity compared to Vanguards comes from assault Marines paying 3 points for jump packs instead of 2. That leaves Vanguards being only 2 points more for an extra attack when you take jump packs.

 

So I'm thinking they are more for the other chapters since we have crusader squads. The only reason for us to take them is for the dual flamers, the dual eviscerators (which are insanely overpriced now compared to other unwieldy weapons. So frustrating), or if you just need to finish off an outrider detachment or brigade.

 

I'm still trying to make them work but so far they have underperformed every game and left me wishing I took Vanguards or Crusaders instead.

[Timur]

I'm really liking my 5 man vanguard Batman utility belt squad.  I only have it @ 2k points now but that unit does a little of everything each time it's on the table.

 

JP's, Melta-Bombs, Sarge w/ TH/SS, 2x TH/Chainsword, 2xPlasma Pistol/P. Axe. at around 150pts.  Yes please.  CC backup.  Deepstrike sweeper.  Hit and run hi-jinks.

 

I'm jealous of WS or even RG, (though their CT actually make for good gunlines, LoL). 

 

Once iI get my Hands WYSIWYGed, I'm gunna try to use my bikes and some vanguard vets as WS vanguard detachment w/ Khan or something.

 

Ebony and Ivory list?

[Timur]

OK I'm officially calling out flamers with D6 shots as nerfed.  Haven't gotten them anywhere near other editions in dmg.  Maybe grav-gun is worse.....maybe.

 

The H. flamer at least has ability to dmg. vehicles/dreads in its favor.

[Death Dealer 101]

One flamer used to completely come close to wiping out a squad of densly packed guardsmen in cover. Lots of hits, wound on 3's, ignore armour and cover. Now it averages 3.5 hits, and doesnt ignore armour for a paltry couple of kills.

 

I feel like GW got a bit carried away with auto hits and overcosted the ability. I just don't rate flamers this edition

[Captain Idaho]

I'm pretty happy regarding 8th edition. My only issues are things like the Vindicator. It's pants. There's just little reason to ever take one over anything else it competes with. Same as a Thunderfire really.

 

Those units aside, everything seems to have a place.

 

8th is doing pretty well.