Best/most efficient AT for Guard?

[Stylian_StHugh]

So having a play around with various units and maths for best damage/point calculations. And Guard just really seem to be lacking in solid middle of the road AT options.  

 

Consistently the maths says Plasma Command Squads come out best, particularly with orders & buffs on them. Melta is really underwhelming for the price. Mass Lacannon teams seems like the other option. Autocannons are underwhelming now, as are missile launchers, and most other 1 shot AT weapons like Laser Destroyers and Vanquisher Cannons. Things like the Shadowsword are good but expensive to field 

 

Losing access to cheap Melta/Demo charge Vets is annoying. AT Sentinels are too expensive. Lack of meltabombs hurts

 

What are people's thoughts? What is working for you for AT for a Guard army? Open to other Imperium options too at a push

[Halfpint100]

I use artillery like basilisk and manticore to shave off wounds, with plasma also shaving off wounds. I am also like yourself and struggling to find anti tank. I mainly just go for the shaving option. However! The hades drill from forgeworld has been great for me. D6 str 10 -4 D6 damage attacks for 65 points! You have to bring a vet squad with it as well. But that has 2 plasma guns and a plasma pistol in my unit. Cheap and it works. Last game it chewed through a crusader in one turn (I think it did 17 wounds) it also had to w7. So it tricky to kill Edited August 3, 2017 by Halfpint100

[Stylian_StHugh]

I was thinking Powerlifters but 3A is weak. Hades does seem good again. Does it have to come with a DKoK Vet squad or any AM vet squad?

[duz_]

Basilisks do pretty good work and good bang for your buck!

[Altasmurf]

Basilisk, manticore, lascannons teams are my holy trinity of anti-vehicle. They do the job for me.

[Otto von Bludd]

I agree that Guard has issues with AT, at least reliable AT.  For example, what do we have that can compare to a Predator Annihilator?  duz_ and Altasmurf pointed out the best options I think.  The Leman Russ Annihilator is nice too but you are paying quite a bit for it and it is stuck at BS4+. 

[Withershadow]

Basilisk, manticore, lascannons teams are my holy trinity of anti-vehicle. They do the job for me.

This.  Artillery and lascannons.

 

I have a lot of autocannons from the previous edition, but they've proven to only consistently chip off a handful of wounds here and there on the typical vehicle rather than forcing.  They are nice at ripping through elite units, however when overcharged plasma is not available.  They are definitely not the medium/light vehicle maulers of prior editions.  The only possible exception are Hydras, since they have volume of fire and there are a lot of Flying targets out there (making them effectively BS3+).

Edited August 5, 2017 by Withershadow

[Shamansky]

 

I have a lot of autocannons from the previous edition, but they've proven to only consistently chip off a handful of wounds here and there on the typical vehicle rather than forcing.  They are nice at ripping through elite units, however when overcharged plasma is not available.  They are definitely not the medium/light vehicle maulers of prior editions.  The only possible exception are Hydras, since they have volume of fire and there are a lot of Flying targets out there (making them effectively BS3+).

 

 

Same thing here. Looks like missile launchers are the best all-rounder heavy weapon now.

I think that SWS with mix of democharges and a meltagun is quite cheap suicide AT squad. But the problem is that they need a Valkyrie to be effective.

[oldmanlee]

I'm surprised no one has said the vendetta six las cannons has got to be good

[Feral_80]

Not particularly. If you move, they are hitting at 5+. If you don't move, they hit at 4+ but your Vendetta is likely being ruined by your opponent's fire on the previous/next turn. It can be slightly improved by an Officer of the fleet, but it is not a very cost-effective way to do it. Overall, sadly Vendetta does not perform very good for its price.

[CoffeeGrunt]

I'm surprised no one has said the vendetta six las cannons has got to be good

 

Hits on 5s though, and is expensive.

[duz_]

Not particularly. If you move, they are hitting at 5+. If you don't move, they hit at 4+ but your Vendetta is likely being ruined by your opponent's fire on the previous/next turn. It can be slightly improved by an Officer of the fleet, but it is not a very cost-effective way to do it. Overall, sadly Vendetta does not perform very good for its price.

WHS, although at least this edition you get to start them on the board for an extra turn of shooting. Flipside even though they're still more durable than a Chimera on paper they're not that hard to take down. Chances are come turn 3 you'll be needing 5-7+ to hit if you haven't been destroyed already ...

[Halfpint100]

I was thinking Powerlifters but 3A is weak. Hades does seem good again. Does it have to come with a DKoK Vet squad or any AM vet squad?

 

The hades drill has to come with it's own specific AM vet squad, 4+ to hit (no idea why) but higher LD and shotguns. People are hoping that the next FAQ adds in DKOK engineers with the hades since they do sell that as a bundle. 

[NatBrannigan]

So the Hades drill, I like it but don't play DKOK.

 

I have a Vet squad that I'm happy to give shotguns to. What are the options for the Hades specific Vet squad? Do they need to be DKOK or can I use just the drill and that Vet squad in any standard Guard Army?

 

If anyone happens to have a sneak preview of the rules...

[Halfpint100]

So the Hades drill, I like it but don't play DKOK.

 

I have a Vet squad that I'm happy to give shotguns to. What are the options for the Hades specific Vet squad? Do they need to be DKOK or can I use just the drill and that Vet squad in any standard Guard Army?

 

If anyone happens to have a sneak preview of the rules...

 

You buy the drill with its own squad which is a 10 man squad of vets 6 points a piece with shotguns (same stats as guard with +1LD) srg can take normal pistol/ melee options. 2 vets can take a flamer, grenade launcher, plasma gun or melta gun. 

Both units must come up at the same time within 2" (or 1" can't remember and don't have access to my book) and still be 9" away from enemy units.

 

drill is 65

10 man squad is 60 

minimum cost is 125. (I run mine with 2 plasma guns and a plasma pistol total of 144)

 

Forgot to mention! it is an elite choice for any AM list 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Halfpint100

[Galron]

Valdor Tank Hunter. Relatively cheap for a superheavy and not a lot of vehicles will stand up to it. Shadowsword excels vs enemy vehicles. Middling vs infantry although the Valdor has the same problem but its also not eating as many points.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Galron

[Stylian_StHugh]

If only Elysians could get SWS with demo packs, then they could throw all of them at once  

 

Hades is a no go then. For those points I'd rather take Elysian Vets and buff them again with their excellent Orders  

 

Someone did mention elsewhere that the Forgeworld Manticore Battery with Trojan Support works out to be an excellent AT platform, particularly as it can fire all its missiles at once, Katusha style

[Galron]

The regular Manticore has a rule that says only one missile per turn. Not sure if the stationary version has the same thing, if not expect it to later. Eysians get cyclopses and meltagun teams along with lascannon Venators. We had them first ground pounding crunchies.

[Withershadow]

I would play the Hades vets with vet stats (so BS3+). It's clearly yet another of many typos, since you're paying vet points for them.

[wulfgar hammerfist]

I know it's somewhat meta dependent, but how many lascannons are you typically fielding in your 1500/2000 point lists? I've been using basilisks, manticores, and plasma primarily.

[Die4Emprah]

In my infantry list, I field 18 lascannon crews