Fire support? What is in your crusade?

[balordazul]

Hey guys,

 

I was curious what you all used for fire support?  I know we all like the LRC and our 5 man las/plas quads but what else do you like to use?  We need to soften up the enemy army before we can encounter most of them in CC so what are your tools for the job?

 

Right now, I'm planning on trying out three Predator Destructors paired with a bare bone Castellen for the re-roll 1's to wound.   The Pred Autocannon is a good anti multi wound target weapon as it does a static 3 damage but only reduces the armor save by 1.  You also never get less than 2 shots with the weapon as it is 2D3.  The heavy bolter is still really nice with the -1 AP and being S5 lets you wound even T8 on 5s.  The range of these weapons means you don't need to move them right away so you will not be taking the move and shoot penalty.  

 

Pairing this with the Kill Shot stratagem means monsters and vehicles are going to take some heavier damage at only a cost of 1CP.  Someone please double check if I'm reading this correctly or just seeing what I want to.  Kill Shot "add 1 to wound rolls and damage", so that makes the Pre AC and heavy bolters wounding T8 on 4s.  Also adding 1 to the damage makes heavy bolters 2 damage and Pred AC 4 damage vs the correct targets.  

 

Note: The previous sentence is the key info I want someone to double check.  

 

Lastly pairing this with a support bare bones castellen means you get a lot more out of those Predator Destructors.

 

Yes they can be countered and killed but this is one of the things I have been thinking about as fire support for my crusade.  What do you use to weaken your foe before jumping headlong into melee?

[Castellan Doren]

Pred annihilator

Pred destructor

2 las dred

1 las ven dred

LRC

 

My opponents don't know where to start shooting.

[AlmightyWalrus]

I've been running a 4x Lascannon Devastator Squad for those must-kill targets. You can hide them out of line of sight and pop up later if you're afraid they'll die, although it'll mean you hit on 4+. They're pretty affordable for the power they bring too.

[Drac0]

I haven't played a game in 8th yet, to be honest haven't played in a long time.

Back in the day I used to field:

 

2x Preds Autocannon + las sponsons

2x Land Speeders typhoon

LRC in larger games

 

now I would probably still field the predators and add dakka dreads

[Firepower]

Vindicators, LRC, eventually a Raven.  I have two Talons to build but they've been hit really hard by price hikes so I'm not sure about them any more.

 

Melta bikes too, I suppose.  Also 1 Land Speeder but it's not been done any favors by pricing either.

 

Wish I had a few Pred kits laying about.  They're not to be trifled with this edition.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Firepower

[Kisada]

I'm really considering putting together another predator or two.  That killshot stratagem seems juicy.

 

3 preds, LRC, and Stormraven ... sounds juicy but its also like 1200 points/58 power

[Blender]

preadator, devastators, 3 landspeeders, lascannon for each squad. razorbacks w/ twin lascannons, a rifeman dread (missile launcher and lascannon) the usual. 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Blender

[Firepower]

Oh, I also have two 5 man squads with Plas/Plas.  Dropping them both in one Pod in a game tomorrow.  Could be interesting, but I gotta remember not to Overcharge the cannon on the turn they land :P

[Blender]

Haha, I supercharged some plasmas. Got lucky the first two times before both gunners died the third time I tried to do it. They had too much zeal that they melted. 

[Aegir_Einarsson]

Autocannon/lascannon Dread, devastarors, lrc, And assaultcannon razorback to make some dmg to light infantry. Earlier i used two LS with CML, but i don't know that they're still usable for they're point cost.

 

And question.

Preds with all lascannons or autocannon/lascannon?

[Gerhard]

Seems I'm the first one walking the line of Heresy here.

 

Two hellblaster squads (:))

Two Predators with autocannon/Las

Two LRC

Two Land Speeders

One Stormtalon

 

I use what I need depending on my opponent. I intend to get another Predator and Land Speeder for the bonusses with three.

[FusionHS]

I'm going to try 3 thunderfire cannons and 3 Relic Contemptors with C-beam cannons and see how that goes.

[Ciler]

For fire support I have my LRC, a Raven when I can afford it, and I also like a 5 man combi plasma, plasam gun and grav canon instead of the more traditionnal las-plas. That's because all those weapons have the same 24" range which means they all can be useful at the same time.

[Marshal Reinhard]

2 Sicaran battle tanks

2 Spartan Assault Tanks

1 LR Achilles

1 Fire Raptor

3 Mortis contemptors

1 Deredeo

 

Fairly atypical

[Ciler]

Presumably you don't have all of the above on the table at the same time ? I'm assuming that's well over 2000 pts.

[Marshal Reinhard]

I don't play that often but the last time I did, I actually did. Was more of an apocalypse game though

[Marshal_Roujakis]

2 stormtalons and 1 Stormraven... all equipped with Assault Cannons and Stormstrikes for the Guppies, while the Raven is armed with Multimeltas...

 

usually enough to cause havoc strafing around and wrecking stuff, and annoys my opponents to hell mainly due to the massive amount of wounds and the capability to dish out more wounds than it can absorb... Only slightly annoyed that the 6's to hit is gone, but then again -1 To hit rolls is still pretty ok... Flamers are usually ignored anyway due to their 8" range... just stay 12" away every time and all the guns can do their job without much difficulty...

 

If I need anymore fire support for bigger games, then that's when the Stormeagle and the Rifle Dread comes out...

[Firepower]

As a general query, are Talons worth their cost these days?  Are there units that can do their job better for a more reasonable price?  

[Marshal_Roujakis]

As a general query, are Talons worth their cost these days?  Are there units that can do their job better for a more reasonable price?  

 

There, are... Land Speeders are one of them and the Tornado pattern is pretty good for general short ranged harassment with Assault Cannons or Multimelta... but the Talons can deal twice the damage and can get away if necessary... sure they're now 50 pts. more than before, but getting the ability to move a far distance and -1 to hit against enemies have saved more than a few times for me... and the negation to hit for the Skyhammer doesn't hurt it as much as the Stormhawks, mainly due to the +1 to hit against anything without Flyer... so 3+ To Hit S7 AP-1 D3 damage is still good against anything... Stormhawks are cheaper (by 1 pt.), and can deal more damage, but they can suffer if you pick weapons that need 4+ to Hit ground targets...

[Firepower]

But if you're looking for pure anti-armor and putting Lascannons on Talons, they cost a bundle.  Skyhammers are good, but if you're like me and mostly have anti-infantry stuff, looking for something to bring a proper, hardcore tank killing unit, Talons seem pricey.  They do however come with the extra survivability of being flyers and speed, but don't have a strat like Killshot that Preds do.  Actually, I don't think there are any Strats at all specifically for our flyers?

 

Though I actually have kits for Talons, which I can't say for preds, so I'll end up trying them one way or another some day.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Firepower

[balordazul]

I did have an twin assault cannon skyhammer talon do well for me the other day.  It was not a cheap model but I do play against a lot of armies that have the "fly" keyword.  I have picked up a StormHawk to double up on the +1 to hit from the Icarus Stormcannon, skyhammer and Interceptors when taking on models with "fly".  

 

But for me the Storm Hawk is more of a situational meta case I feel vs a reliable all comers.  

[Firepower]

But twin Lascannons...195 points for a flyer with TLAC and TLLC.  Dunno if that's worth it, but I want it to be.

 

A 4+ to hit non-flyers with Skyhammer is rough, and even worse once it starts losing wounds.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Firepower

[balordazul]

I had enough other things on the table that the talon was still doing well in the later game.  I went into hover mode and did not move so the positive and negative was canceled when I was using the skyhammer on non fly models.  

 

This was a case of good luck in that game and it worked out well.  I do not think my storm guppies are a great choice but they were fun.  The Raven is still the go to for the fliers bases on the weapon load out, Power of the Machine Spirit and drop off a dread and a unit on the way around the table.  

[Cognative]

2 Predators (one fully magnetized, one Destructor)

3 Vindicators

2 Storm Talons

2 Whirlwinds

8 (or so) Rhino/Razorbacks

4 Land Raider Crusaders

2 Godhammers

1 Redeemer

4 Land Speeders

10-ish Dreadnoughts of varying styles

Trading for 3 Thunderfire Cannons soon.

 

I have almost as much of Dorns love of big guns in my blood as Templar ZEAL.

[Ebon Hand]

Man, seeing these arsenals really means I have to step up my game. I rarely have used Heavy Support through the years.

 

All I have are

A Predator Destructor (in disrepair)

A Predator Annihilator (even more in disrepair, dog nomed the turret :rip:)

A Vindicator

A Thunderfire cannon

 

And of course the obligatory LRC, but it's also in disrepair as my assault cannon turret went missing.

 

On my list of wants are a Sicaran and a Fire Raptor. My anti air is non existent at the moment.

 

I'm also going to try out some Grav/hurricane Centurions once I stop procrastinating and build them up.