criddopher Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) I'm hoping to figure out how to be better with my krieg army. So far every game I have a real strong showing to start, I'm dropping stuff like crazy, then the army gets close enough to charge me and i'm done. Here's usually how my list goes. 2k list 2 squads of Field officers and commissars hot shot las and power swords with grenadier 10 man squads 1 flamer 1 plasma in storm chimeras One squad of the same on foot. 2 medusa carraige or earthshakers 2 heavy mortars and a quad gun (seperate units) one heavy weapons team of 3 guys either mortars or autocannons Then usually a spearhead of command tanks(vanquisher) and leman russ(plasma) I put heavy flamers on the hull of all the tanks. So i end up with 7 command points I usually use my rerolls for maxing shots on the medusa or something. I usually place the artlillery back behind cover, the tanks flank it, i keep one squad nearby to slow any deep strikers and send two squads out for objectives and whatever. So like I said usually im doing real well until the army gets to CC and i just get demolished. Tanks fall, my troops hardly ever do 2 wounds then they are wiped out. I'm not sure what to do. I did order 10 death riders, is that my biggest problem? I have 6 bullgryns too I could add in here. I just want to be able to withstand some cc. WHat I don't want to do is become a cheese list. Like I know if I took a billion conscripts I'd do better, but I dont wanna be that guy, just wanna be a little more competetive. Any ideas? (edit) I do have a bunch more troops, regular krieg infantry. I have 5 leman russ total, scions 2 taurox and a vulture gunship. As i said on the way is 10 death riders, 2 heavy flamer teams and 3 centaurs (making 4 total) Edited August 4, 2017 by criddopher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam Master Flex Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 What are you coming up against exactly? I play against mainly MEQ's so I run alot of Plasma and Melta, I always take a squad of Bullgryns now ans always atleast 2 squads of scions, usually one being q command squad for orders. My Vanquisher has been a bit lackluster so far this edition too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truesight Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 One unit of infantry on foot? It sounds like you are castling up in a corner as well. That is setting yourself up for disaster. A CC armies dream is that he can move everything on one vital point and tie up the enemy army whole. You need screens and to spread out. Drop the Russes, take all the infantry you have with the bullgryns. Scions too if you have the points. Spread out your arty, and run the infantry forward with commander support. They will die, this is ok. They will buy you turns of shooting. Melta, fist/axe krieg platoons are quite nice because they are resistant to morale. Your enemy have to kill all of them or risk special weapons dicing his army. Consider running a command platoon in one of those Chimera's with a Regimental banner and some special weapons. Having those close to the melee will make your troopers much punchier. Anything you can do to make him worried about multiple directions is golden too, so Scions or your Death riders later on. Die4Emprah 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenricusTyranicus Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Yeah, I'd recommend trying to fit about three more infantry squads in there. Maybe 4 Then maybe Punisher commanders instead of vanquishers. Once that happens, this looks like a pretty solid list to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchverr Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Not a bad base, I would agree with the above, simply not enough infantry to bubblewrap with in the list, the death riders will be a very helpful punch unit for combat, they were grand in 7th yet alone 8th, just be careful with them when you do so :) I would say infantry wise, it depends on your opposition, but from looking there it looks like you are bringing 30 infantry to the field, i would recommend a minimum of 80 guys. Something from that, depending on how your chimeras are working out for you, you could swap them to centaurs with 5 man squads in them for the same price if you use special weapons, thats 2 more squads which are mobile but you keep your 30 grenadiers (sure they are on foot now, but it is 10 more men) or you could swap each for 2 infantry squads, giving you 40 more men in the field. Thats the limited help i can offer, i aint had much chance to play yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galron Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Echo what many are saying. Tanks are lackluster this edition. Maybe take one out and replace it with infantry squads. I have had great success with just mass numbers of units spread all over the place. When he has one point to concentrate on, theres very little that wont crack it if he chooses to. When spread out he cant go after everyone giving you time to shoot the crap out of his lesser numbered units. Sometimes even mass fire doesn't bring things down but most imes it does. You also need more mortar squads. Its 27 points(you are using regular guard for your heavy weapons right? for now anyway) for three of them, use 3 or 4 squads. 12d6 shots is going to kill something, just pick a squad a turn and pound it. Again spread out your deployment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
criddopher Posted August 4, 2017 Author Share Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) Alright. So more troops is the main thing. I do plan on using those centaurs with 5 man squads 2 specials each perhaps. I can drop a tank for two and afford a lot more infantry. I use the krieg mortar teams for my heavy weapons squad. I've been playing vs marines, necrons and dark eldar. (although dark eldar I messed up my list and he had 500pts more than me on the table heh.) So, tons more infantry, special cc weapons so they have some punch in CC. Should I drop the heavy mortars and quad guns? (forge world light artillery) Im finding in all my games unless the weapon has decent -ap people just shrug off the wounds anyway. Which is why i take grenadiers as they are ap-2. Remember krieg dont get first rank fire second rank fire so there is no 4 shots per turn for me. Best I get is 2 shots at rapid fire range. Does that alter the idea of more infantry? (edit) I think i should not be charging too with my troops as i have been and i die by their turn. Seems to me waiting for them to charge so i can either give the order for pistol 2 on my turn, or fall back and shoot again then overwatch when they charge again is my best bet. ?? Edited August 4, 2017 by criddopher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
criddopher Posted August 4, 2017 Author Share Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) HQ [6 PL, 87pts]Death Korps Field Officer [2 PL, 29pts]Hot-Shot Lasgun, Power axe Death Korps Field Officer [2 PL, 29pts]Hot-Shot Lasgun, Power axe Death Korps Field Officer [2 PL, 29pts]Hot-Shot Lasgun, Power axe Troops [18 PL, 572pts]Death Korps Grenadier Storm Squad [3 PL, 107pts]7x Death Korps Grenadier w/ Hot-Shot Lasguns 2x Grenadier w/ Plasma gun Grenadier Watch Master w/ Chainsword, Hot-Shot Lasgun, Power axe Death Korps Grenadier Storm Squad [3 PL, 107pts]7x Death Korps Grenadier w/ Hot-Shot Lasguns 2x Grenadier w/ Plasma gun Grenadier Watch Master w/ Chainsword, Hot-Shot Lasgun, Power axe Death Korps Grenadier Storm Squad [3 PL, 117pts]7x Death Korps Grenadier w/ Hot-Shot Lasguns 2x Grenadier w/ Metla gun Grenadier Watch Master w/ Chainsword, Hot-Shot Lasgun, Power axe Death Korps Grenadier Storm Squad [3 PL, 117pts]7x Death Korps Grenadier w/ Hot-Shot Lasguns 2x Grenadier w/ Metla gun Grenadier Watch Master w/ Chainsword, Hot-Shot Lasgun, Power axe Death Korps Grenadier Storm Squad [3 PL, 57pts]2x Death Korps Grenadier w/ Hot-Shot Lasgun 2x Grenadier w/ Plasma gun Grenadier Watch Master w/ Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol Death Korps Grenadier Storm Squad [3 PL, 67pts]2x Death Korps Grenadier w/ Hot-Shot Lasgun 2x Grenadier w/ Melta gun Grenadier Watch Master w/ Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol Elites [17 PL, 294pts]Death Korps Combat Engineer Squad [4 PL, 77pts]Combat Engineer Watch Master w/ Plasma pistol, Power axe Engineer Weapons Team w/ Mole Launcher Engineer with Special Weapon w/ Plasma gun Engineer with Special Weapon w/ Plasma gun Death Korps Combat Engineer Squad [4 PL, 87pts]Combat Engineer Watch Master w/ Plasma pistol, Power axe Engineer Weapons Team w/ Acid Gas Bomb, Heavy flamer, Krieg Combat Shotgun Engineer with Special Weapon w/ Melta gun Engineer with Special Weapon w/ Melta gun Death Korps Death Rider Command Squadon [6 PL, 68pts]4x Death Korps Death Rider Veterans w/ Death Korps Hunting Lance Death Korps Death Rider Commissar [3 PL, 62pts] w/ Plasma pistol, Power axe Fast Attack [5 PL, 88pts]Death Korps Death Rider Squadron [5 PL, 88pts]4 x Death Korps Death Riders w/ Death Korps Hunting Lance Death Korps Ridemaster w/ Plasma pistol, Power axe Heavy Support [19 PL, 337pts]Death Korps Heavy Weapons Squad [4 PL, 30pts]3x Death Korps Heavy Weapons Team w/ Mortar Death Korps Heavy Weapons Squad [4 PL, 30pts]3x Death Korps Heavy Weapons Team w/ Mortar Heavy Quad Launcher Battery [3 PL, 85pts]Heavy Quad Launcher Battery [3 PL, 85pts]3x Guardsmen Crew Heavy Quad launcher Medusa Carriage Battery [8 PL, 192pts]Medusa [4 PL, 96pts]4x Crewman Medusa [4 PL, 96pts]4x Crewman Dedicated Transport [32 PL, 628pts]Death Korps Centaur Light Assault Carrier [3 PL, 54pts]2x Heavy stubber Death Korps Centaur Light Assault Carrier [3 PL, 54pts]2x Heavy stubber Death Korps Centaur Light Assault Carrier [3 PL, 54pts]2x Heavy stubber Death Korps Centaur Light Assault Carrier [3 PL, 54pts]2x Heavy stubber Death Korps of Krieg Storm Chimera [5 PL, 103pts]Autocannon, Heavy Bolter Death Korps of Krieg Storm Chimera [5 PL, 103pts]Autocannon, Heavy Bolter Death Korps of Krieg Storm Chimera [5 PL, 103pts]Autocannon, Heavy Bolter Death Korps of Krieg Storm Chimera [5 PL, 103pts]Autocannon, Heavy Bolter This list gets rid of all the russes, as I agree, as much as i hate it tanks just arent doing much. I realize I'll have to play with the detatchments and lose 6 points, but you guys think this is more along the lines of what would be a decent all comers list? I think I own all the models to do this. All the troops are in transports, 10 man grenadiers with field officer for orders in chimeras, engineers and 5 man grenadiers in centaurs. some artillery and heavy weapon mortors in the back field. 10 death riders flanking in wherever I need em. 7x Death Korps Grenadier w/ Hot-Shot Lasguns 2x Grenadier w/ Plasma gun Grenadier Watch Master w/ Chainsword, Hot-Shot Lasgun, Power axe 7x Death Korps Grenadier w/ Hot-Shot Lasguns 2x Grenadier w/ Metla gun Grenadier Watch Master w/ Chainsword, Hot-Shot Lasgun, Power axe Death Korps Grenadier Storm Squad [3 PL, 117pts]7x Death Korps Grenadier w/ Hot-Shot Lasguns 2x Grenadier w/ Metla gun Grenadier Watch Master w/ Chainsword, Hot-Shot Lasgun, Power axe 3x Death Korps Heavy Weapons Team w/ Mortar Edited August 5, 2017 by duz_ No excessive points values in army lists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die4Emprah Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 my most successful krieg builds involve tons of infantry. I win more than I lose by a good margin. You have to play highly aggressive with your infantry. Take no gruff. You man your trenches, but if they're dumb enough to get near you.... go get em! Not a fan of the hades drill this edition so I now throw grenadiers into a storm chimmy for that punch. I've only ran PL this edition but my 2k list from last edition is about the same as my 100pl list. venner, command squad field officer command squad (2 sets) death rider officer + command squad quartermaster 4 krieg infantry units with flamers2 grenadier units with heavy flamers (inside a storm chimera) 4-6 heavy weapons squads with lascannons 5man death rider squad2-3 squads of earthshaker carriages. (anyone that's able, I give them a plasma pistol, power axe)plan:infantry squads are used as buffer to take an assault, and make yourself look defensive... but if they give you the chance, assault them. leave yourself enough room to fall back if need be, but be close enough to deny deep strike. move your grennys around to support fights or start them fall back if able, drop arty on whoever is still alive, rinse repeat outflank with your death riders, make them regret coming to your side of the board to mess with your guns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galron Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I am seeing at least 7 command points, how many did you have before? Is the Commie an HQ or an elite? I never use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
criddopher Posted August 5, 2017 Author Share Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) my list is likely 7, I had 7 before If i can find some more room for fast attack I can pull a brigade. Commissar is elite. My hq would just be on of the field officers. I get nervous having my troops be the main source of heavy weapon killing, I mean 2 medusas, Im used to 7th where id roll with tanks to take out tanks.. But thinking about my last game i had 4 leman russ and i think they killed 2 terminators and put 2 wounds on a sicarin. Whereas my troops and medusas did all the rest. Edited August 5, 2017 by criddopher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truesight Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Interesting, meched up Krieg. Make sure to have all the storm grenadiers in the centaurs for the scout move. Scout-> Disembark the grenadiers-> charge something with the centaur. Should be super annoying with that many transports running around. I'd also keep all the arty you can, it's fluffy and very good. You have combat engineers?! They are the absolute business, load them up with heavy flamers, melta and demo charges, I'd put them in a storm chimera. Good bye tanks and monstrous creatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) HQ [6 PL, 87pts]Death Korps Field Officer [2 PL, 29pts]Hot-Shot Lasgun, Power axe Death Korps Field Officer [2 PL, 29pts]Hot-Shot Lasgun, Power axe Death Korps Field Officer [2 PL, 29pts]Hot-Shot Lasgun, Power axe Troops [18 PL, 572pts]Death Korps Grenadier Storm Squad [3 PL, 107pts]7x Death Korps Grenadier w/ Hot-Shot Lasguns 2x Grenadier w/ Plasma gun Grenadier Watch Master w/ Chainsword, Hot-Shot Lasgun, Power axe You cannot take hotshot lasguns on Field Officers or the Watch masters, and the power axe would replace the chainsword. Edited August 5, 2017 by duz_ No excessive points values in army lists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truesight Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 You cannot take hotshot lasguns on Field Officers or the Watch masters, and the power axe would replace the chainsword. You can, check the ranged weapons list, the one Field Officers and Watch masters choose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) Ah that's unique, neat. This means our Sgts can take hotshot lasguns rather than the bolters of generic Sgts. Better than a special pistol, I think, for only 1 point. Edited August 5, 2017 by Withershadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
criddopher Posted August 5, 2017 Author Share Posted August 5, 2017 Yeah we can take hot shot las. I meant to replace everyone with power axe, was an oversight. And in that list I intended 2 grenadiers and the engineers in centaurs, the other 40 grenadiers in chimeras so they can take their field officer with em for orders. I could get two more centaurs down the line tho and break that last field officerless grenadier squad into 5's for it. I really am gonna miss leman russ. Are any builds better this version? Ive used battle, plasma, punisher, and vanquisher. Of them the vanquisher is the only one thats done anything. str 7 just doesnt hit armour well, and overcharging I notoriously always lose wounds even with the reroll 1s order. Punishers, meh I have enough mass shots for infantry and str 5 ap nothing seems any wounds that get through always get saved. what about like the nova cannon? Or perhaps ill just buy the malcador infernus. Hence why I'm all grenadiers instead of troops, like i said, in all my games so far anything with ap nothing just gets saved all day. As far as tactics with a list like this, ive never run mass infantry. In 7th i always brought defence lines, artillery, tanks, and conscripts (ran my krieg as guard) so im used to castling up. I did pretty well too in my local games. this list essentially i want to charge up the field, be super aggressive, unloading grenadiers to melta/bomb tanks, rip up infantry and heavy infantry with the heavy flamer/plasma teams. Charge stuff with the centaurs and chimeras instead of the grenadiers to tie them up? and bomb what i can with the artillery. Flank the horses into the back field or someplace vulnerable to make my opponent wish he didnt run for my guns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
major higgins Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 I play 2500 pts but I run 5 infantry squad, 10 grenadiers, 20 Engineers, 8 death riders. Never lose a game till now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Demolisher cannon, lascannon and pair of multimelta can do work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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