Stormhawk/talon - do they have a place in a GK list?

[skinomyteeth]

Hey all, thinking of putting together an infantry/flyer alpha strike list:

4 strikes, 2-3 paladin squads and a Stormraven.

 

I have two questions:

In general, is there a place for stormhawks or stormtalons in a GK list?

For my list above, should I take one of these for more anti-tank/MC or is 1 Stormraven enough, or should I get 2 Stormravens?

[Prot]

I think they're okay, but a little too pricey. They don't hit ground units very well, plus moving with heavy weapons... those anti-flyer missiles are an additional -1 to hit ground units... ouch. I do like twin Assault cannons on anything. I do think the Stormhawk is about a 3/5 type unit. It does excel at flyer hunting though.

 

Paladins are fun, but Stormravens with an aura do some serious work. But post FAQ be careful of the flyers not counting for the purposes of having units on the table.

[skinomyteeth]

Awesome. Thank you.

I may do another Stormraven then - or just take another HQ.

[jeffersonian000]

The Stormhawk is a nice dedicated air to air combatant, and fir GK its cheap and Psychic.

 

The Stormtalon is still a nice ground attack craft, but its almost as expensive as a Stormraven.

 

Personally, I'm planning on just ignoring Flyers, as I have for years now. But if I did need a Flyer or two, I'd go with the Stormhawk.

 

SJ

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Is the Stormhawk better than the Xiphon though? We do have that as an option as well IIRC

[Gentlemanloser]

What book is the Xiphon in? Don't recall seeing it in the FW index.

 

 

Yup, the Xiphon is in FW index. But not in the GK section. So we can no longer take it as per the faq.

 

Legion of the damned and grey knights are the only factions that cannot be chosen for the <chapter> keyword.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[jeffersonian000]

Which makes the Stormhawk a better choice at the moment. /wink

 

SJ

[Seizeman]

I see it, there's no good use for these units in our army. The stormhawk is only decent against flyers and only if you pay 217 for it, which is pretty absurd. The stormtalon only does decent anti-vehicle damage if you pay close to 200 points for it, and then a venerable with Twin lascannon + missile launcher does a better job for cheaper.

 

Razorbacks and stormraven are better firing plataform with the added benefit of being transports, which is of extreme importance to grey knights.

[Gentlemanloser]

Seize, Ven Twin Las / ML dread or index dual Twin Auto?

[Seizeman]

Sadly, I have to say that neither are good.

 

The dual auto was never good to begin with. The autocannon is an all-round decent weapon, but what we really need in the army is dedicated anti-armor, and the autocannons are pretty mediocre at that. The Twin Las + Twin AC was not amazing, but it was decent enough and filled the role somewhat. The only problem is, it was playable only because you could pick them as regular SM ones an save yourself 20 points for a useless smite. Now not only do you have to pay the GK tax, but you can't take the AC anymore, you have to take the missile launcher which is significantly worse than the twin AC. Yes, now they can use astral aim (only if you pick it from the codex), but it does not make up for the increased cost (7% more) and reduced effectiveness ( 9% less), specially when they were already on the fringe of playability.

 

But probably the biggest threat to the dreadnought's viability is the existence of the Grand Master NDK. A GMNDK with psycannon and psilencer does, on the move, almost the same damage  against T7  vehicles than the TwinLas+ML dread (only 3% less) and a lot more vs infantry, although it does about half the damage vs T8 (the dread does about 4 dmg to a Leman russ, which is not amazing anyway). Of course, the GM does 26 times more damage in melee and has access to the psychic onslaught stratagem. Durability wise, the GM is  a 270% more durable against small arms, and twice as durable against anti-armor (three times as durable if he uses sanctuary). Of course, you must add, on top of that, an aura buff, better psychic abilities and a more desirable force organization slot. All of this for ony a 54% points increase, so it is really hard to compete.

 

In fact, it is likely that it makes even the doomglaive obsolete. On a purely offensive perspective, the doomglaive is point for point more efficient both in melee and in the shooting phase, but not by a lot ( the GM does, assuming the doomglaive does not have any reroll, 46% more damage in melee and  61% more damage in combat, for a 70% points increase). Of course, all the other points I made in the previous comparison also apply here, adding the fact that the GM can deep strike and moves 8", which is a pretty relevant factor for a melee unit (although the doomglaive can be carried in a stormraven), It is possible that they can coexist, but they fill a similar role, so we'll see.

 

So, for the time being, I will stick to melee and stormravens for anti-amor.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Seizeman

[Waking Dreamer]

Is the Stormhawk better than the Xiphon though? We do have that as an option as well IIRC

You can actually still take the Xiphon in a battleforged army...just as a separate detachment that doesn't have GK units e.g.. auxiliary support detachment.

[Valerian]

It'll cost you a CP, though.

[Waking Dreamer]

It'll cost you a CP, though.

 

Yeah, I know. Depends on the meta I suppose if it's worth it.

 

Stormravens are now the new hotness with some armies bringing multiple flyers.  The Xiphon's missiles have 60" range and do a flat 3 Dmg each wound. They'll be hitting a zooming stormraven on 3+ while hitting a hovering one on a 2+. No penalty against ground targets either, so you can even aim the Xiphon's weapons against Leman Russes and Landraiders if they're there.