Are vehicles a problem in 8th?

[FerociousBeast]

A significant percentage of the tournament lists I see posted here and elsewhere focus heavily on vehicles. Usually large, point-expensive vehicles that roll lots of dice. 8th edition has of course made vehicles more reliable and durable (and, yes, expensive), and I would argue infantry has gotten more fragile with the changes to cover and heavy weapons, and with so many re-roll abilities on the table. Compound this with the fact that small numbers of drops are preferred now and the old prejudice against Forge World is close to dead, and we see a turn towards expensive vehicles with lots of guns as the more competitive choices in a codex or Forge World index.

 

What do you think? Is this a problem?

[Timur]

The game has turned towards shooting, with larger # of shots compared to last edition combined with easier rules for who gets to shoot at what.  Shooting and moving w/ penalty, using every weapon on the model in a shooting phase, etc. 

 

CC is a good way to stop a shooty unit (even vehicles), and can be a way to hide from all this firepower, if you're unit is fast and does well in CC.

 

Infantry seems about the same as it was last editon, maybe a bit more survivable/practical since they don't have to conga line and do other weirdness to avoid templates.  AT guns will only drill a single model.  They've passed out a lot of 5+ invluns. (I know, not to marines cause reasons).

 

Big honkin vehicles still go down to big honking guns.  There are 2 ways, that can overlap, to kill a vehicle: High strength low #of shots d6 dmg weapons or a mountain of low to mid str. dice.

 

Honestly this new rule set seems to do what 40k's been trying to be for a while, with past editions just being a mess of poorly written, badly edited stuff that had piled to an almost unmanageable point.

 

Though I do foresee the problem of a continual creep of Mary-Sue rules for this and that FW, or new release model, being a thing on the competitive side.  Which is the same for similar markets and products such as MP video games.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Timur

[Extropian]

Are eh an issue? IMO, no.

 

I have seen a LOT of people coming Way too light on anti-tank weaponry though, possibly due to holdovers from 7th. The days of being able to glance heavy armour to death are gone.

 

You better bring some dedicated AT stuff now if you want to be talk down Land Raiders, Stormravens, Russ squadrons etc....or an absolute trunkful of lighter shots (though a LR will take almost 1000 Bolger shots from Marines, soooo....not really efficient to do with small arms. Only about 220 heavy booster shots though!).

 

I think it'll be fine, especially as GW have already shown willingness to address major problems (flyer list nerf for example).

[Montford]

Vehicles are certainly dangerous and deadly, but far from unbeatable. No issues thus far.

[sebs_evo7]

I have found crippling vehicles to be a pretty viable tactic and then focusing on sonething else Edited August 7, 2017 by sebs_evo7

[Frater Cornelius]

I would not say that all vehicles are an issue. I would say that big FW vehicles like Mastodon, Brass Scorpion, Thunderhawks, etc. are an issue. Even a Land Raider/Repulsor is not particularly hard to drop.

 

My biggest issue with vehicles is that they can fire from any point on the model, leading to scenarios like a Predator and Raider with passengers shooting each other from a tiny point of their hull while being completely obscured by solid buildings. Flyers are even worse. Why habe the 90 degree turning limitation if you can fire your weapons anywhere? I think this is the biggest issue with vehicles, not their relative toughness (though the FW superheavy thing still stands).

[Rik Lightstar]

Big vehicles especially in smaller games ask tough questions of how you've built your list.

 

You need to have an answer. The answer could be ignore them and kill the infantry then try to win on VPs, that's a bit of a gamble though.

 

It has to be said that pure Primaris really struggle with this.

 

Rik

[Frater Cornelius]

Agreed. I played exclusively Primaris this edition and the lists I struggled most against were vehicle-heavy. Hellblasters did am amazing job. Las Cannons on the Repulsor kept on disappointing with their low rate of fire and high variance. I might keep the Twin Las, but the Talon will be replaced with the Heavy Onslaught.

Primaris really need a Razorback and Predator equivalent with heavy anti tank to get that critical mass of LC, at which point it will be worth running them again.

[Bulwyf]

I learned early on in 8th with my SW that the old days are just that. I upgraded to Razorbacks with LAC and a land raider crusader. Now I don't have the same issues with vehicles and still have plenty of points for my assault army.

[Arganias]

Vehicles can now shut down other vehicles (and shooting units) quite hilariously now. Have an empty Rhino that isn't going to be doing anything for the rest of the game? Charge it into a shooty unit or tank. You will be forced to Fall Back or put a fair amount of shoot resources into it. My friend kept ramming his Rhino into my Taurox, just because he could.

[Rik Lightstar]

As all my Mantis Warrior marines are going to be Primaris Marines, I need another solution to enemy vehicles.

 

I'm thinking a small Astra Militarum detachment too keep them company....

 

Rik

[Arganias]

As for the tournament question. I think that vehicles are good and you would be crazy not to bring them with the amount of shooting they can do, while transports can absorb a fair amount of shooting, it has made them relevant again by being so tough. Even the humble transports of various races can be useful in most any situation.

[Paradogmatic]

I'm making an allied group of Primaris to go along with my Admech force ( also in progress ) -- I see them as a combined arms solution now, with heavy fire coming from the Admech contingent and then troop and elite support ( mostly ) coming from the Primaris side. I feel like they'll compliment each other well.