Stratagem Discussion Area

[Ninjoe42]

The stratagem says specifically, "pick a Grey Knights Character and double the range of an aura abilities on its data sheet." As Seizeman has pointed out, First to the Fray has an aura, but is not an aura ability on the Character's data sheet, so it would not apply, based on the precise language of the stratagem.

...thats stupid.

 

Hope they FAQ it better

[Seizeman]

First into the fray is arguably the best stratagem in the codex and probably the one most people are going to take. There's no need to make ridiculously superior to everything else by allowing it to be doubled (it's already big enough if used on a NDK). The stratagem is worded that way for a reason.

[Valerian]

I seriously doubt they will FAQ it.  It is a stratagem explicitly designed to boost the range of Character aura abilities, not to boost Warlord Traits.

[Valerian]

First into the fray is arguably the best stratagem in the codex and probably the one most people are going to take. There's no need to make ridiculously superior to everything else by allowing it to be doubled (it's already big enough if used on a NDK). The stratagem is worded that way for a reason.

 

Indeed.  Let's not be too quick to forget that there are two player's in every game, and that we all want an edition with better balance.  If the designers make such that one side can pretty much auto win the game with an army-wide first turn alpha strike assault, then there is not much point in putting any models on the table in the first place.

[Gentlemanloser]

I doubt I'm going to have much consistent luck rolling 9+ to charge, even with a reroll!

 

But when I pull it off, it will be glorious!

[RedemptionNL]

Remember that you need to roll 10+ for a first turn charge; you need to place your models more than 9" away from any enemy models.

[Seizeman]

Remember that you need to roll 10+ for a first turn charge; you need to place your models more than 9" away from any enemy models.

And you only have to be within 1 inch of the enemy for the charge to be successful, so 9 inches it is.

 

With a reroll you have a 48% chance for a successful charge from deep strike. If one of the dice is a 5 or 6 you can use the single reroll stratagem too, so it is not that hard to pull off. I would not base my strategy on it and you should be careful of the counterattack, but if you charge with 2 -  4 units you should expect at least one to charge.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Seizeman

[Valerian]

Yeah, you just need to roll a 9 to achieve the "more than 9 inch" charge.  They even put it in the FAQ, since so many people were confused by this.

[Gentlemanloser]

I don't think you can reroll a reroll.

 

So can't use the strat with first to the fray.

 

I suppose if you roll a 5/6 in one dice it might be better to spend the cp rather than using FttF.

[Strykaar]

I don't think you can reroll a reroll.

 

So can't use the strat with first to the fray.

 

I suppose if you roll a 5/6 in one dice it might be better to spend the cp rather than using FttF.

 

The strat reroll is technically not a "reroll". I dont know the exact wording currently, but it says something roll any single dice again. So you can use it after a "reroll".

[Seizeman]

Actually, no, you can't use the reroll stratagem after a reroll. The rulebook is pretty clear in that you cant reroll a dice more than once. The stratagem states ""you can reroll a single dice", so no debate on that.

 

In my previous post I was actually referring to the possibility of using the stratagem to reroll a die instead of using the trait reroll in case you get a 5 or 6 on the first roll.

[LuisMars]

I did some calculations and this the chance of making a succesful charge asuming random rolls. For normal charges the the new trait is better but there's only a small difference between them.

Distance Needed	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12
Normal		100.00%	97.22%	91.67%	83.33%	72.21%	58.31%	41.62%	27.79%	16.69%	 8.35%	2.78%
Trait		100.00%	99.92%	99.30%	97.22%	92.29%	82.63%	65.94%	47.85%	30.57%	15.98%	5.48%
1 reroll	100.00%	99.54%	98.14%	94.90%	89.34%	80.54%	68.04%	52.32%	35.65%	19.95%	7.42%
Trait vs rr       0.00%  0.38%   1.16%   2.32%   2.95%   2.09%  -2.10%  -4.47%  -5.08%  -3.97% -1.93%

As  Seizeman said if you roll a 5 or a 6 it's better to spend a command point for that reroll.

Distance Needed	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12
Normal		100.00%	100.00%	100.00%	100.00%	100.00%	91.67%	75.02%	58.35%	41.66%	25.02%	 8.35%
Trait		100.00%	100.00%	100.00%	100.00%	100.00%	96.54%	85.43%	69.92%	51.38%	31.28%	10.90%
1 reroll	100.00%	100.00%	100.00%	100.00%	100.00%	98.62%	93.06%	81.93%	65.27%	43.09%	16.69%
Trait vs reroll	  0.00%	  0.00%	  0.00%	  0.00%	  0.00% -2.08%	-7.63% -12.01% -13.89% -11.81%  -5.80%

Edited August 8, 2017 by LuisMars

[RedemptionNL]

 

Remember that you need to roll 10+ for a first turn charge; you need to place your models more than 9" away from any enemy models.

And you only have to be within 1 inch of the enemy for the charge to be successful, so 9 inches it is.

 

Ah yes, I knew that, brain fart on my part.

 

I did some calculations and this the chance of making a succesful charge asuming random rolls. For normal charges the the new trait is better but there's only a small difference between them.

Distance Needed	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12
Normal		100.00%	97.22%	91.67%	83.33%	72.21%	58.31%	41.62%	27.79%	16.69%	 8.35%	2.78%
Trait		100.00%	99.92%	99.30%	97.22%	92.29%	82.63%	65.94%	47.85%	30.57%	15.98%	5.48%
1 reroll	100.00%	99.54%	98.14%	94.90%	89.34%	80.54%	68.04%	52.32%	35.65%	19.95%	7.42%
Trait vs rr       0.00%  0.38%   1.16%   2.32%   2.95%   2.09%  -2.10%  -4.47%  -5.08%  -3.97% -1.93%

As  Seizeman said if you roll a 5 or a 6 it's better to spend a command point for that reroll.

Distance Needed	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12
Normal		100.00%	100.00%	100.00%	100.00%	100.00%	91.67%	75.02%	58.35%	41.66%	25.02%	 8.35%
Trait		100.00%	100.00%	100.00%	100.00%	100.00%	96.54%	85.43%	69.92%	51.38%	31.28%	10.90%
1 reroll	100.00%	100.00%	100.00%	100.00%	100.00%	98.62%	93.06%	81.93%	65.27%	43.09%	16.69%
Trait vs reroll	  0.00%	  0.00%	  0.00%	  0.00%	  0.00% -2.08%	-7.63% -12.01% -13.89% -11.81%  -5.80%

 

I think with the updated rulebook FAQ they stated that you must re-roll both dice of a 2D6 roll. That's how they also played it in the Black Legion vs Grey Knights preview on Warhammer TV when Abaddon rolled something like a 1 and a 6 for his charge, he re-rolled both dice.

[Gentlemanloser]

Nothing about rerolls in the faq.

 

But it does confirm that multiple bc psychic locus don't stack. :(

[Seizeman]

Usually, when you reroll a throw you reroll all the dice. The stratagem specifies that you reroll a single dice so you can roll only one of the charge dice. The same works for psychic tests. In the case of First to the fray and similar abilities, you must reroll both dice.

[RedemptionNL]

Nothing about rerolls in the faq.

It's the first errata in the FAQ:

 

Page 178 – Re-rolls

Change this paragraph to read:

‘Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means you get to roll some or all of the dice again. If a rule allows you to re-roll a result that was made by adding several dice together (e.g. 2D6, 3D6, etc.) then, unless otherwise stated, you must roll all of those dice again. You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls happen before modifiers (if any) are applied.’

[Gentlemanloser]

Holy heck. I read the whole thing and missed that...

 

Still the strat specifies only 1 die.

 

FttF would reroll both however, as it rerolls the result.

 

Nice flexibility between the two.

[Beams]

 

I guess, but I know I'm going to hear "you charge 2d6, and the faq specifically states that you'd have to reroll both?"

Edited August 8, 2017 by Beams

[Trollbeard]

With all these new stratagems and such, I'm wondering if It would be a good idea to spend the majority of

Our command points turn 1? For example, say a big squad of strikes (or whatever) using the psybolt ammo stratagem after they teleport in to maximize damage potential? And then whatever else like re-rolling a couple dice here and there?

It seems to me with our high unit cost the bigger detachments are almost impossible to fill in a regular sized game of say 1500-2000 points. It looks like lots of players are starting the game with 5-7 command points, just wondering how people are having successes with them?

[Beams]

I'm pretty sure it usually a good idea to spend cps early. That way you maximize your first turns when it really matters.