Relics of Titan Discussion Area

[Valerian]

Relics:

 

 

Fury of Deimos: Replaces a storm bolter.  Looks like it becomes Rapid Fire 3, Strength 5, AP-1

 

Destroyer of Crys'yllix:  Replaces a daemon hammer.  Does a flat 4 Damage (vice 3)

 

Banner of Refining Flame:  Give bearer the 6" Smite that does d6 mortal wounds.  Used by an Ancient

 

Domina Liber Daemonica:  Daemon units within 6" subtract 1 from Leadership

 

Cuirass of Sacrifice:  ignore any wounds on a 5+ (the new-style FNP; this one looks like a no-brainer to me)

 

Soul Glaive:  Replaces a Halberd.  Strength +1, AP-3.  Re-rolls failed hits and wounds.

 

[Gentlemanloser]

The liber is the only relic a GM NDK can take.

[Valerian]

This time around they all look pretty decent, but I'd say the big winner is the Cuirass of Sacrifice; it's a no brainer for an Infantry Character like an Apothecary or an Ancient.  My second choice would be the Banner, but I'd have to see how that plays out in a few games to see if it's worth the opportunity cost of not taking the Cuirass.

 

I do like the new mechanic of first one's free, second costs a CP, and third costs three CPs, with no stacking on a single Character.

 

 

V

[Valerian]

The liber is the only relic a GM NDK can take.

 

That's right.  If one is taking an NDKGM I'd save the Relic slot(s) for other Characters that can make better use of them.  As mentioned just above, the Ancient and Apothecary are great candidates.  

[Gentlemanloser]

Ah you can't stack? Was going to have a Chaplain with Fury and Cuirass.

 

I'll drop Fury and save a CP. Cuirass is a no brainer!

[Valerian]

Yes, no stacking allowed in 8e (so far).  They're wanting to avoid the problems of the past with folks making Chapter Masters with Eternal Shields and Burning Blades, and, and, and...

[Captain Coolpants]

Cuirass is obviously the number 1. As everyone keeps saying. No brainer!

 

The banner is also great! Basically turns someone into a purifier. Why bother spending CP to deepstrike purifiers, when you can just use this relic next to a BC, double your range, and smite from 12" away after deepstriking, then use your first to the fray warlord bubble to re-roll charges!

 

 

The the fury is definitely my 3rd choice. +1 and - 1 and 6 shots half range is pretty amazing. Stacks great with psybolt!

[Holier Than Thou]

I think I'll give my Grandmaster the Fury. I'd love to give him the Cuirass too (if we could stack relics) but I'm thinking, he won't be shot at except by snipers, he'll always be sporting a 3++ from Sanctuary and I'll have an Apothecary nearby healing his Paladin bodyguard, if any wounds do get through to him I can heal them back up so the Fury wins. Edited August 5, 2017 by Holier Than Thou

[TheMostGood]

Can named characters use any of the relics? 

[Gentlemanloser]

Nope. They have thier own relics.

[TheMostGood]

Nope. They have thier own relics.

Oh yea. That makes sense. So it hasn't change from 7th in that regard. 

[Waking Dreamer]

For the Fury, I think I saw it with 30" range. So at 15" that's 6 shots! Much, much better than it's 7th edition version.

[Beams]

Does the cuirass stack with the warlord trait?

 

Because if it does, a Generic GM could be pretty survivable. 2+/4++/5+++/5++++ use sanctuary to up the 4++ to 3++, and then if you need to, use the strategem to get 2++, and if your near an apocethary, he's practically invincible.

[TheMostGood]

Does the cuirass stack with the warlord trait?

 

Because if it does, a Generic GM could be pretty survivable. 2+/4++/5+++/5++++ use sanctuary to up the 4++ to 3++, and then if you need to, use the strategem to get 2++, and if your near an apocethary, he's practically invincible.

Yes. Each "FnP" ability is unique. They do not add on the the roll, you just make separate rolls. 

 

So it would go something like this: 

 

You fail to save a wound and take one damage. Roll the Cuirass' 5+ FnP. Did you pass? If yes, hurray! If no, roll your warlord trait 6+ FnP. Did you pass? If yes, hurray! If no, you take that damage. 

[Yossarion]

I really like the idea of psybolts + fury. S6 -2 is essentially a assault cannon with better AP. Could mulch an entire tactical combat squad or take out 3 primaris in one go. Killing 2 Tyranid warriors is aces too.

 

I think FnP is pretty good, but I'd rather trust me shooting on a 2+ with rerolls vs a 5+++.

[Ninjoe42]

That's for 2CP each shot though, you have to like it even when it's regular. Cuirass basically gives a GM 2 extra wounds

[soots]

I may be wrong, but do relics cost a cp to be used during the game?

[Seizeman]

The first one is free, the second one costs 1 CP, the third costs an extra 2 CP.

[TheMostGood]

The issue with the cuirass is that it's a great defensive option on an army that doesn't have a high defense rating. It helps to balance out our high offense capabilities.

 

However, I think it's use will be limited in practice. For it to come into play you'd have to first get hit by someone that has range on your character, which likely won't happen until you get into close combat.

 

If you're in close combat, then you're probably fighting models as tough as you, so wounds unsaved will be doing multiple damage. Multiple damage will often not be saved my your FNP.

 

If the GM NDK can take a relic, then the cuirass would be worth it on him, since he cannot hide behind troops.

 

The other relics are decent, but I guess it all depends on what you need. I assume that relics can be chosen before the game starts, but after you've seen your opponents list, yea?

 

If that is true, then perhaps we would be better suited to have a list that details which relic to take against each army.

[Ninjoe42]

I think I'm leaning toward the Soul Glaive as my go-to relic actually. Rerolling failed wounds will be really nice (hits are usually 2+ anyways) and will probably tear through both large groups and tough enemies. The AP -3 and d3 damage ensures some good damage. Hammerhand and Banner will make sure you get the most out of it.

[Seizeman]

Why take the soul glaive when you can just take a regular hammer? It's only 13 points and it deals more damage. If you absolutely can't afford the 13 points for some bizarre reason, it is ok, but GK characters are good enough that you should spend the extra points and give him the cuirass or the fury instead. Or even the +1 D hammer.

 

I actually think the fury is a very strong contender. A rapid firing heavy bolter on a guy with BS 2+ is pretty decent damage. Cuirass, while pretty good, is not amazing. Its 2 extra wound in most cases, wich is very good in theory, but the characters that can wear it usually don't take much damage and when they do is usually so much damage that the cuirass won't make a difference. The thing is between the GMNDK and named characters I don't think I will be taking anything else than an apothecary or maybe a librarian (depends on the final rules on it), so I will probably use the cuirass anyway, as the apothecary can't take ranged weapons and the librarian can take better ones and he's bad in melee.

[Beams]

Soul glaive is better for killing multiple units, I think.

[Seizeman]

Glaive is the same as the hammer when killing Space marine equivalents, slightly better at killing T3 fodder, and significantly worse against anything with T6+ or multiple wounds. The difference is even bigger if you assume the wielder will have some form of rerolls to hit, wich will be the case more often than not. And honestly, in an army full of storm bolters, you don't choose an expensive character for its ability to kill gaunts, do you?

 

By picking the hammer you can even upgrade to the relic version. 4 dmg vs 3 may not seem much but it is a 25% increase and can easily be the difference in killing the target or not, as most good targets have 8 wounds (needing 2 successful wounds instead of 3) or 10-12 wounds ( 3 successful wounds instead of 4). On average it deals twice the damage of the glaive.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Seizeman

[Beams]

Huh, I'd figure that the -1 to hit on the hammer would cause it to hit a decent amount less than the glaive.

 

Also, GK may have a lot of stormbolters, but they don't have a lot of dudes. An Ork player may easily throw 120+ Orks at us, likewise with Tyranid, and a Guard player might throw that plus a Baneblade. So having more options versus hordes isn't a bad call, I wouldn't think.

[Ninjoe42]

Glaive is the same as the hammer when killing Space marine equivalents, slightly better at killing T3 fodder, and significantly worse against anything with T6+ or multiple wounds. The difference is even bigger if you assume the wielder will have some form of rerolls to hit, wich will be the case more often than not. And honestly, in an army full of storm bolters, you don't choose an expensive character for its ability to kill gaunts, do you?

 

By picking the hammer you can even upgrade to the relic version. 4 dmg vs 3 may not seem much but it is a 25% increase and can easily be the difference in killing the target or not, as most good targets have 8 wounds (needing 2 successful wounds instead of 3) or 10-12 wounds ( 3 successful wounds instead of 4). On average it deals twice the damage of the glaive.

Hmm, I suppose you're right. I also thought the -1 hammer would make a difference.

 

Against hoards I'm not sure the glaive is gonna make a big difference, results in a couple of extra dead where storm bolter and psilencer management is going to matter more.