Why didn't all the Primarchs have their own Empires?

[DogWelder]

I'm curious as to why the other Primarchs never built up a great Empire that they and their Legion personally oversaw and ruled like Guilliman did with Ultramar. Individuals like Angron and Curze I understand; they were never going to administrate or rule. But what about the others? 

[Joe]

Guilliman was raised by Konor to build an empire; his brothers weren't. I'd wager the Emperor intended as much as well.

 

Keep in mind, Guilliman was as much a statesman as he was a general; moreso than any of his brothers. They all had their roles to fill.

[Marshal Rohr]

Dorn did, per Extermination. Ruled the Inwit Cluster.

[DogWelder]

Dorn did, per Extermination. Ruled the Inwit Cluster.

 

That has always interested me. Shame I never saw any lore exploring that. Would definitely like to see what kind of society Dorn built/oversaw and what shaped him.

[Guest]

Dont know about all the primarcha but Russ said he conquered on the Emperors name unlike some of his brothers who were carving out their own kingdoms from their conquered planets (I imagine he was talking about Guilliman?).

[The Doctor Of War]

A lot of the Primarchs landed on worlds that were no longer space faring - Russ, The Lion, Sanguinius, The Khan for example - which made it rather difficult to establish a large empire of their own.

[Walter Payton]

 

Dorn did, per Extermination. Ruled the Inwit Cluster.

 

That has always interested me. Shame I never saw any lore exploring that. Would definitely like to see what kind of society Dorn built/oversaw and what shaped him.

 

 

I would hope that the HH book that deals with the Siege of Terra/the Sol Campaign will really expand Dorn's background.  He doesn't have much development so far aside from being gruff and loyal.

[Kizzdougs]

The way I see it was that the Legions and Primarchs were designed to win the Empire not build it. The Primarchs were on the War-Council, but there were non-Legion organisations that were charged with building and governing the Imperium. When an expedition fleet conquered or brought a new world to compliance, the Legions would move on to the next conquest. That world was assigned an Imperial Governor and administrative cadre from amongst the non-Legion personnel of the expedition fleet.

 

Also, I don't think many of the Primarchs were interested in the governance of worlds and empires. They were competitive (as most brothers are) and were more interested in their Legions' number of conquests. Empire building is time consuming and resource intensive. Time and resources that could be spent defeating humanities many foes (and earning glory ) Many Legions saw post-conquest duties such as garrison work as below them and a waste of their warrior skills (for example the Iron Warriors).

 

Guilliman (and his Legion by extension) was an exception to the rule because of how he was brought up on Macragge.

 

The Lion: As the Primarch of the First Legion I imagine that the Lion believed that his rightful position was at the head of the Great Crusade. His Legion had one of the highest tallies of conquests and the Lion would have been desperate to uphold the Legion's record.

 

Fulgrim: For the much of the Great Crusade the Emperor's Children were too few in number to operate independently (they spent a lot of time working alongside the Luna Wolves and Horus), and so probably lacked the resources to establish an empire. 

 

Perturabo: The garrison duty performed by the Iron Warriors is noted as one of the reasons that the Legion became so embittered. Garrison duty is thankless work...

 

The Khan: I don't think they had any interest in empire building. The White Scars were always operating at the very limit of Imperial space, moving rapidly from one war-zone to next. The Khan was all about freedom and destroying kings and tyrants...

 

Russ: The Wolves saw themselves as the Emperor's executioners, not empire builders. They focussed on protecting the empire rather than building it. Also they were a 'Trefoil' Legion (one of three Legions that were designed by the Emperor for a particular role).

 

Dorn: Built keeps on the worlds that he conquered to help secure them, but was less concerned by other matters of infrastructure/governance. We know he had something of an empire before his discovery, but during the Crusade he was he a crusader first.

 

Curze: The Night Lords preferred to use fear to ensure obedience rather than develop the kind of system of governance at the core of empire building.

 

Sanguinius: I'm not too sure about Sanguinius. I suspect he was driven by the need to prove himself, and to most of the Primarchs that meant conquering the most worlds in the name of the Emperor. We also know that Horus fostered a rivalry between the IXth and XIIth Legions which would have helped to push Sanguinius more towards the pursuit of conquest rather than empire building.

 

Ferrus: Of all the Primarchs, Ferrus understood his role and purpose. Conquest.

 

Angron: As a freed slave, Angron had no interest in empire building and was far more interested in tearing down tyrants and kings.

 

Guilliman: -

 

Mortarion: Mortarion is another one that I'm not too sure about. I can only assume that his upbringing made him distrustful of overlords and tyrants. I also think he understood that the Legions and Primarchs were designed for conquest first and foremost.

 

Magnus: In a way I think that Magnus saw empire building as below him. He was working towards nothing less than the development, enlightenment, and evolution of the human species. Empire building was probably a bit too temporal for his concern.

 

Horus: He was building an empire, the Imperium, but it was his role to win not build the empire. The Warmaster was always most concerned by his martial record.

 

Lorgar: Before his censure Lorgar was building an empire of a kind. An empire of faith.

 

Vulkan: I'm not too sure about Vulkan. It might have been that his Legion either lacked the numbers necessary or it might have been that the specialised nature of the Salamanders (they were one of the 'trefoil' Legions) precluded them from empire building.

Edit: I was just reading about the Salamanders last night (in 'Massacre') and it said that Vulkan chose not to make himself king of Nocturn, even though he easily could have. Maybe that is another insight in to why he never forged an empire.

Also, before his discovery the XVIIIth Legion was low on man power and spread thinly across the Imperium, often fighting particularly deadly rearguard actions against rebels and xenos raiders (they were even used as a reserve against the Rangdan). So the fledgling XVIIIth had very little opportunity to develop the resources or character required for empire building before they were united with the Primarch.

 

Corax: Corax was another Primarch that overthrew an oppressive regime on his home world. Like Angron, he was opposed to kings and tyrants.

 

Alpharius-Omegon: The third 'Trefoil' Legion. As with everything concerning the Alpha Legion who can really say... 

 

 

In conclusion, most of the Primarchs were more interested in conquest than empire building.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Kizzdougs

[bluntblade]

 

Dorn did, per Extermination. Ruled the Inwit Cluster.

 

That has always interested me. Shame I never saw any lore exploring that. Would definitely like to see what kind of society Dorn built/oversaw and what shaped him.

If his Primarch book doesn't do so, I will be miffed.

 

Angron couldn't process the sheer amount of information necessary to build an empire, courtesy of the Nails. You can see soemthing of that when he castigates Guilliman; he doesn't even consider the amount of work Guilliman put into Ultramar, because the Nails made it impossible for him to even try and grasp it.

 

Mortarion's gifts and tendencies to salt the earth as a matter of course meant his Legion rarely left anything to build on. All this made them outsiders; however much Mortarion resented it, it was their lot to fight in the nastiest theatres, tackling the worst kinds of xenos and fighting human cultures relatively rarely.

 

At the end of the day, the Primarchs were leading the elite of the elite of the Great Crusade. There were massive civil organisations charged with the building of the Imperium, and there were so many demands upon the Astartes already.

Edited August 6, 2017 by bluntblade

[totgeboren]

At the end of the day, the Primarchs were leading the elite of the elite of the Great Crusade. There were massive civil organisations charged with the building of the Imperium, and there were so many demands upon the Astartes already.

The only one who managed to build an empire openly even after rejoining the Imperium was the UM.

The WB tried, but their approach was time-consuming and lead to their shaming at the Emperors hand.

 

Funny thing though, after that their rate of conquest was similar to the LW, and every single world they conquered was loyal to them when the HH erupted, so they actually did kind of manage to become empire-builders after all.

[Urriak Urruk]

Dont know about all the primarcha but Russ said he conquered on the Emperors name unlike some of his brothers who were carving out their own kingdoms from their conquered planets (I imagine he was talking about Guilliman?).

After reading Russ' primarch book, there was definitely some hinting that the Great Crusade was less than noble and partly done out of selfish interests.

 

I'm pretty sure Russ believed that some legions, specifically the Ultranarines, Dark Angels and Luna Wolves, were conquering not just to look good but to have the biggest swath of recruiting worlds available to them after the Crusade was over.

 

Russ states that he's not a fan of this and simply believes his role is to the Emperor's nastiest of tasks.

 

I think the only Primarchs interested in Empires were Guilliman, the Lion and Dorn. And even Dorn entirely gave up the idea of any independence after meeting his dad.

[bluntblade]

Seems Perturabo started to build a pocket empire during the Heresy, centred on Olympia. So until then he was hampered by "Perturabo, s'pose you could go camp outside that fortress and spare some guys to garisson these two hellholes?"

[Athrawes]

Magnus and the Thousand Sons Did. 

 

From Wolf King and Daemonology, We know that Both the Space Wolves and Deathguard spent some time Scouring the "Prosperine Empire"

 

These are alluded to as being set up as Library Wolds, Imprinted with the culture of Tizca/Prospero, and used as far flung recruiting worlds.

 

The Impression was that these represented widely spread apart worlds, not a solid chunk of star systems forming a compact whole.

[bluntblade]

Damn, I forgot that.

 

Yeah, Daemonology suggests to me that Magnus took to caring for worlds with especially rich stores of lore.

[Olis]

I think, as has been alluded to at length, it boils down to personal disposition and the circumstances they found themselves in. In a nutshell. Some were not suited to it, whether by choice or quirk of character, whereas others didn't have the means even if they did have the chops for it. 

[Trevak Dal]

 

 

Dorn did, per Extermination. Ruled the Inwit Cluster.

That has always interested me. Shame I never saw any lore exploring that. Would definitely like to see what kind of society Dorn built/oversaw and what shaped him.

I imagine one with lots of self flagellation via pain gloves and camping behind walls they built.

 

I think most of them were not in the best home scenarios to have mini empires, the Ultramar 500 worlds were an empire before Guilliman showed up, he just was able to make them work better.

[Plaguecaster]

Well Lorgar did a pretty good job rebuilding entire systems as his own though solely dedicated to the Emperor not himself unfortunately he was chastised rather badly though this didn't stop him as whilst he wasn't building some mighty empire like his brother, the worlds he conquered after his punishment may not of looked like an empire but secretly they were all tied to the worship of chaos so when the heresy came they all could reveal their true colours Edited August 16, 2017 by Plaguecaster

[Doctor Perils]

Seems Perturabo started to build a pocket empire during the Heresy, centred on Olympia. So until then he was hampered by "Perturabo, s'pose you could go camp outside that fortress and spare some guys to garisson these two hellholes?"

I believe it's called the Meratara Cluster, that the Iron Warriors wrested from the Black Judges, no?