Custodes a viable option?

[skoll]

While our golden brothers certainly won't be benefiting from our CT or character buffs. I believe a single squad in a land raider can be a powerful addition to a templar force, hitting on 2s with a significant number of decent strength attacks, with great ap and d3 wounds a piece custodes feel like mini character units.

 

It feels relatively thematic to me that the personal guard of the emperor would fight alongside the descendants of his first champion. Besides as gene children of dorn our forebearers held the walls of terra side by side with the custodes

[Drac0]

thing is won't that squad be a point sink? I don't have the books nearby but a custodes squad in a land raider woul be very limiting for the rest of the army (points and structure wise).

[skoll]

It is a 650 point investment. Which i would certainly not claim is unreasonable, specially since the land raider is a very solid fire platform many would consider taking anyway.

 

The custodes land raider also happens to be venerable for free so it can ignore wounds on a 6+ which i suppose is an alright trade off from not benefiting from character auras

[olsol]

While Custodes are good on paper with specific loadouts I do believe that their lack of mobility is a big issue atm. At just under 60 points each loosing just one can have a massive effect on their damage output. A well placed predator cannon shot or lucky rolling on Image in CC is the real detriment to these Banana Boys.

 

However, with codexes getting their own Stratagems now. Their might be one that allows them to deep strike, completely defeating the purpose of a golden land raider (while saving over 200 points in the process)

[skoll]

While Custodes are good on paper with specific loadouts I do believe that their lack of mobility is a big issue atm. At just under 60 points each loosing just one can have a massive effect on their damage output. A well placed predator cannon shot or lucky rolling on Image in CC is the real detriment to these Banana Boys.

 

However, with codexes getting their own Stratagems now. Their might be one that allows them to deep strike, completely defeating the purpose of a golden land raider (while saving over 200 points in the process)

I'm unsure they would do that, as currently the land raider is actually a reason people are not taking custodes as it makes up the majority of the investment.

 

Shield + blade custodes with a vexila come to 286 points while the land raider totals 364 by itself.

 

The custodes regardless of loadout are actually closer to 50 points than 60 (except vexilia one), so they actually are cheaper than hammer terminators and if my math is correct sword custodes will beat them quiet often.

 

As far as a custodes book, i believe they and sisters are due for a long wait unless gw decides to incorporate the rest of the custodes 30k line, at which point we are prob looking at 70 point 4 wound custodes terminators (basically unit of full characters)

 

 

Edit:removed the double post portion

Edited August 6, 2017 by skoll

[Ciler]

Be mindfull, if you do take custodes, that they need to be in their own detachment, or they'll compromise your ability to use chapter trait and SM stratagems.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Ciler

[Medjugorje]

Be mindfull, if you do take custodes, that they need to be in their own detachment, or they'll compromise your ability to use chapter trait and SM stratagems.

and in comparison, your Assaultterminators are better with all the CT and buffs,...

beside that I would choose Grey Knights instead of Custodes if you want to have a foreign unit.

They have additional psi defence.

[Marshal Reinhard]

B-but but, they're witches!

[skoll]

Be mindfull, if you do take custodes, that they need to be in their own detachment, or they'll compromise your ability to use chapter trait and SM stratagems.

What ? Where does it say you can only use chapter tactics if the detachment is wholy composed of SM units ?

 

Also hammenators rerolling 4s still has less likelyhood to hit than custodes which naturally hit on 2s , custodes also have on average 2 extra attacks (gotta take that banner) and additional shooting. Albeit the hammenators wound better.

 

Dual lightning claws is certainly a closer contest for the same purpose with hellbrecht around as they reroll 3s and reroll to wound on s5.

[Aegir_Einarsson]

Ciler Probably thought about specific BT trait And chapter tactics

[Ciler]

 

Be mindfull, if you do take custodes, that they need to be in their own detachment, or they'll compromise your ability to use chapter trait and SM stratagems.

What ? Where does it say you can only use chapter tactics if the detachment is wholy composed of SM units ?

 

Codex p. 195 :

 

If your army is battle-forged, all infantry, bikers and dreadnought in a space marine detachment gain a chapter tactic [emphasis mine]

 

Codex p. 194 :

 

A space marine detachment is therefore one which only only includes units with one of these keywords [emphasis mine] : <Chapter>, Ultramarines, Imperial FIsts [....] or Black Templars

 

There is absolutely NO doubt in the matter, that adding Custodes into a detachment prevents units in it to benefit from chapter traits.

[skoll]

Oh, wow that is actually pretty lame. I thought all you missed out on was the super objective secured thing.

[Ciler]

Oh dear, no, you also cannot use any of the special SM stratagems if you don't have a unified space marine detachment.

 

That makes sense though, you can't have the advantages of mixed units AND the advantages of individual factions.

[skoll]

Oh dear, no, you also cannot use any of the special SM stratagems if you don't have a unified space marine detachment.

 

That makes sense though, you can't have the advantages of mixed units AND the advantages of individual factions.

Dunno, lack of keyword buff interaction seemed detriment enough to me. I mean you already cant ride in rhinos painted the wrong color regardless of how often it happens in the fluff

[Ciler]

 

Dunno, lack of keyword buff interaction seemed detriment enough to me. I mean you already cant ride in rhinos painted the wrong color regardless of how often it happens in the fluff

In V7, certainly, in V8, there are no such restrictions that I am aware of.

[Aegir_Einarsson]

So to be sure. If I have all models in detachment with Black Templars Key-word I can use Specyfic Stratagem and Chapter tactics right?

[Ciler]

That's my understanding of the rules.

[Honda]

Agree with Ciler. I've asked the same question in different places and that is the response each time.

 

As an aside, I played another learner game with a friend yesterday (will type up batrep) and I took IF and BT battalion. I was attempting to synergize the two forces, but discovered that situationally, more often than not, I wanted to be able to do BT things when the IF were around and vice versa.

 

That has me rethinking a number of things regarding force composition.