Bike options missing from new Space Marine Codex

[JJD]

I haven't seen it mentioned here and I thought It would be worth bringing up.

 

I'm sure most of you are already aware that many options for upgrades where no official GW model exists have been removed from the new codex. For example Chaplains, Lirarians, apothecarys and command squads can no longer take bikes.

 

I'm sure this will be quite worrying as most of us will have converted RW commanders. I know my captain on his bike is probably my favorite model in my small collection.

 

I posted this in another thread to make everyone aware of GWs official stance and I thought it was worth posting here.

 

For clarification this is GWs official stance from the Warhammer Community site questions and answers regarding the new codex https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

 

There are a few options that are missing in the codex that appear in the index: why is that? Does that mean I can’t use these models in my army anymore?

 

While the indexes are designed to cover a long history of miniatures, the codexes are designed to give you rules for the current Warhammer 40,000 range. There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example.

Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).

They still gain all the army wide-bonuses for things like Chapter Tactics and can use Space Marines Stratagems and the like, so such venerable heroes still fit right in with the rest of your army.

So as and when our codex arrives you all likely need to keep hold of your index to keep playing a lot of your favorite conversions. Edited August 6, 2017 by JJD

[Fallen Avenger]

If its not in the Codex, the you take the datasheet from the Index.

[Ciler]

I don't think Dark Angel players have much ground to worry since the captain on bike still exists for generic SM and there actually is a kit for biker command squad in the DA range, so in a worst case scenario, you would "lose" chaplain and librarian on bike...

[aura_enchanted]

I don't think Dark Angel players have much ground to worry since the captain on bike still exists for generic SM and there actually is a kit for biker command squad in the DA range, so in a worst case scenario, you would "lose" chaplain and librarian on bike...

we would lose nothing, the only thing weve lost is the techmarine on a bike. and thats not a huge loss we barely used him anyway. tbh hq's on bikes and bikes in general were too strong as units anyway. if anything i would like to see more pain on the fast aggressive units like bikes. their very unfun and non-interactive

[Helycon]

 

I don't think Dark Angel players have much ground to worry since the captain on bike still exists for generic SM and there actually is a kit for biker command squad in the DA range, so in a worst case scenario, you would "lose" chaplain and librarian on bike...

we would lose nothing, the only thing weve lost is the techmarine on a bike. and thats not a huge loss we barely used him anyway. tbh hq's on bikes and bikes in general were too strong as units anyway. if anything i would like to see more pain on the fast aggressive units like bikes. their very unfun and non-interactive

 

The same applies to the Techmarine on bike: It's in the Index, like the Chaplain on bike and Librarian on bike. If you have the model, you can use it, using the datasheet from the Index and any points values for options from the codex.

 

Also, a Techmarine on bike can keep up with those juicy Sicaran tanks and any Land Speeders you may have, so you can still repair them whilst they're rolling op the battlefield. If you have a strikeforce of Preds or other stationairy stuff, the regular Techmarine is fine. 

Edited August 6, 2017 by Helycon

[Master Sheol]

If i have to go around with BRB, CA, Codex, Index, i am gonna choose th yse the indexes only and play with power levels

At least there are all the units/options and what will be out new for DA will have dataslate in the box

Andi play at PL so i don't need CA unless it will change the power levels

 

I didn't bought SM (i play CF), CSM (i have IW) and GK dexes so i dont think i will get any codex from this edition

 

Indexes are enough to play and all my friends from the club agree with that

[JR-Jack]

I have a slight fear that over time (and after most/all armies have codices) reference to the indexes for models GW don't make will be discouraged (I can still use the indices with friends on a casual Saturday but those units not in codices might disappear from updated points lists which tournaments want to use.

 

I've been using an Interrogator Chaplain, Chaplain and Librarians on bikes as my got HQ choices for a long time now and I'm thinking about starting to test lists without them. Hopefully I can wean myself of them by the time a new Dark Angels Codex omits them and I can keep playing while lugging around only one army book!

[ValourousHeart]

I personally don't think we have anything to fear.

 

First off we are able to make a Apoth, Banner and Champion on bikes out of a single box.

 

As for Techmarine on bike, well my guess he is gone, until GW releases a model for it.

Primarily because the kits with bikes are all missing the servo-arm backpack.

 

Then we have the Chaplain and Librarian on bikes... and I'm think there might be 2 possibilities.

1) We could lose them like everyone else, until the release new models.

2) They change the codex to have HQs be able to take a bike with a plasma talon.

 

In my opinion, there isn't much different from the champion and the Chaplain or Librarian, except a possible weapon swap.

The basic Chaplain and basic Librarian both come standard with a club-like weapon, and the kit has that.

 

I haven't looked through the new SM Codex, so I don't know if Jump Packs were removed as options for any characters.

But under the current range there is not a Librarian nor a Techmarine with a Jump Pack.

But I would argue that a weapon swap is just as easy as a backpack swap.

So from that POV the Champion is very easy base for DA players to make other HQ bike models that would be equivalent to kit bashing a Librarian with a Jump Pack.

 

And I think we would all love to give our HQ models plasma talons plus what ever gun they hold in their hand.

[dtse]

I think indexes will be obsolete once all codexes are out. How long this takes is anyone's guess but at their current rate of 2-3 a month. Not long. They have made it clear from beginning that indexes were just a temporary fix to bring everyone's models that they may possibly own up to 8th edition standards.

 

Now what will have access to or not. Who knows. One can only speculate based on nothing but opinion and the past. And we all know how different GW is these days

[Helycon]

That would also mean the Imperial Space Marine is never going to be useable again. They clearly stated that no models would be invalidated. Making the indexes obsolete without adding chairs on bikes does exactly that.

[Ciler]

Se my post on the topic in the strategium : http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337161-codex-vs-index-lost-options/page-2?do=findComment&comment=4849385

 

GW has released it's tournament rules for 2017, and they explicitely allow indexes and explicitely give the exemple of a chaplain on bike.

[dtse]

Sure. We will see once all codexes are released.

[Helycon]

I'm sorry, but every topic you seem to be one of the most cynical people I have seen. I bit of positivity would be nice.

 

Games Workshop have done very well keeping models relevant and telling us no models will be invalidated. Index books remain viable for the codices already released. FAQ's were very quick right out of the gates. I for one feel like GW have stepped up their game and have hoped for the future. People have been using these models for quite some time now and have become a part of the game. They even FAQ'ed one of them, namely the Interrogator Chaplain on bike's turbo boost. They care about your current collection, just as much as they care to sell new models in the form of Primaries. Whilst I don't feel like they add a ton, they sure as hell look cool. I'll be looking to the future with good feelings. Hopefully you can too :)

[JJD]

I appreciate a bit of cynicism as much as the next guys but the whole point of this post was to point people to GWs official faq in which they tell you rules for these models are available and are't going away.

 

Besides if you were going to take the cynical path then surely you would keep the older models in the index thus ensuring everyone has to buy two books not just one.

 

Spend spend spend.

 

I would love to think commanders on bikes will get official models but now Primaris are a thing I just don't see us getting any old marine releases outside of forge worlds Heresy.

 

That said I would have to assume primaris on bikes will be zooming along sooner or later.

Edited August 9, 2017 by JJD

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

Slightly related question, I know GW has said that some of the new units released can be used in Dark Angels, but I'm having a hard time finding it. Can we take non-Primaris lieutenants now? I know they've said DA, BA, and SWs would have access to the new Primaris models.

[Master Sheol]

Slightly related question, I know GW has said that some of the new units released can be used in Dark Angels, but I'm having a hard time finding it. Can we take non-Primaris lieutenants now? I know they've said DA, BA, and SWs would have access to the new Primaris models.

Only the new primaris units can be Added to DA

Unfortunately we still don't have access to:

Lieutenats

Cataphractii

Tartaros

Centurions

Contemptors

Storm Ravens

And so on

[Helycon]

Since the non-Primaris Lieutenants are only available in C:SM, we cannot take them just yet. You're free to bring Primaris Lieutenants however, as you are indeed correct: DA have access to all the Primaris goodies.

[JJD]

I found this less than definitive response on the community page that seems to suggest you can use all the new primaris goodies using rules in the box and points on the community page. It does not list all the units available.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/22/the-other-angels-of-death-and-codex-space-marines/

 

It mentions match play points being available on the site but I can't find them so if anyone knows where they are please let me know.

[Helycon]

This PDF will tell you.

[Ciler]

I don't know about the rest, but i'm sure that DAs will get some rule equivalent to the lieutenant (reroll to wound) when their own codex comes out.

[Master Avoghai]

Sure. We will see once all codexes are released.

 

The critical point won't be when all codex will be released...; It will be when we'll pass to v9.

 

At this time, GW may release a new temporary index and THEN, we'll see if they reconduct datasheets for unreleased models like autocannon dreads and chaplain on bike.

 

Moreover we must take into consideration that model's releases are not linked to a codex releases anymore : if GW want to release a new model, they'll do it with the datasheet inside and available on their website on a pdf...

 

The only thing they want now is to put in a codex what a customer can afford in a boxset and nothing more. But actually, nothing prevents them to put a pdf at disposal to play models they don't sell anymore... Forgeworld can also think that some of the options GW gave up may be interesting to develop in their own range... :rolleyes: 

 

 

However this situation shows us one thing : primaris weren't necessary at all and GW would have been abale to make business just by releasing non available kits/models

[JJD]

This PDF will tell you.

Thanks Helycon that's pretty definitive.

[Normal Norman]

As an addendum to this discussion it is worth noting that in the new Grey Knights Codex they added a unit without a model. Namely a Grandmaster in Nemesis Dreadknight. I am not sure if this means that they are intending to bring out a model in the future or that they will continue to partially support non-model units. Conceivably they will redo the Dreadknight kit with a command option ala Sableclaw/Ravenwing Landspeeder. Edited August 14, 2017 by Normal Norman

[Ciler]

I think the whole "no model = no rules" thing was a bone thrown at the community, not the actual reason. The Grey Knight thing (as well as the lack of rules for Calgar in power armour) are further indication of that.