A Guide to Slaying the Heretic

[Ciler]

Good timing as I have a 1200 point game against Chaos tomorrow. Not sure what's coming BUT need to figure out how to do this.

 

Question. With the Stormraven ... if I want it to benefit from Helbrechts buffs for shooting, do we measure 6 inches from the base of the Raven?

 

So he would disembark with the unit(s) and stay within 6 of the base for the Stormraven to get all the re rolls? Does that work?

See the basic rules, but all distances are measured from bases yes (only exception being vehicles that do not have a base such as the LRC (for now). That allows for all sorts of dirty tricks. Also keep in mind that special rules for models do not work while they are embarked.

 

Fast question: can repulsor transport just primaris, or all other normal marines too?

The keyword is primaris infantry, so no normal marines I'm afraid.

[Aegir_Einarsson]

I thought the same way. Just want to be sure:) Edited August 9, 2017 by Aegir_Einarsson

[TheOneTrueZon]

Next week I'll be up against either Night Lords or Noise Marines, all this is great information to have, thanks all!

[Stemplar]

Ciler- thanks! Appreciate the help.

[Ebon Hand]

So ... HELP!!

 

I've loaded up the LRC and a razorback and I'm taking the new Redemptor.

 

My big issue is, do I take my Chaplain in terminator armour so he can wear the helm? OR for fewer points take a Lieutenant and give him the helm? That way I can squeeze in am extra couple of weapons too.

 

Thoughts?

It all depends on what you want to buff more, close combat or shooting. They're both solid choices. I'm partial to the Chaplain but that's because in my army my heavy lifting gets done by Assault Terminators, and he's pretty durable too.

 

The Lieutenant buffs both shooting and close combat to a lesser extent than the Chaplain since hitting is better than wounding generally speaking. If you use the Dreadnought strategem, you can get a little bit of to hit rerolls too, in which case the Lieutenant will shine.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Ebon Hand

[Stemplar]

 

So ... HELP!!

 

I've loaded up the LRC and a razorback and I'm taking the new Redemptor.

 

My big issue is, do I take my Chaplain in terminator armour so he can wear the helm? OR for fewer points take a Lieutenant and give him the helm? That way I can squeeze in am extra couple of weapons too.

 

Thoughts?

It all depends on what you want to buff more, close combat or shooting. They're both solid choices. I'm partial to the Chaplain but that's because in my army my heavy lifting gets done by Assault Terminators, and he's pretty durable too.

 

The Lieutenant buffs both to a lesser extent but hitting is better than wounding generally speaking. If you use the Dreadnought strategem, you can get a little bit of to hit rerolls too, in which case the Lieutenant will shine.

Thanks! I've gone with the Castellan this time, partly because I wanna see how he goes in a game. Also because with the saved points I could give the Castellan (Lieutenant) a thunder hammer and one of my crusader squads a bigger gun!!

[Schlitzaf]

That makes me think can we give the Chaplain Dreadnought the Crusade Helm?

[Aegir_Einarsson]

He is character Right? So No problem there... But why to do so? He has no aura ability.... exept +1 str wheh unit is in the same combat... so... no need in my opinion to give him helmet...

Edited August 9, 2017 by Aegir_Einarsson

[Stemplar]

Follow up question:

 

If the buff just says 'rolls to wound' can that be in both shooting and fighting phases?? Any reason why not?

 

In which case ... that's Good, right?

[Aegir_Einarsson]

Ok I have thought about something like this. A nice substitute for Primaris stuff,

 

vanguard detachment.

 

2x Tempestor prime with temepstus command rod:

 

Tempestus Command Rod: A model with a Tempestus

command rod may use the Voice of Command ability

twice in each of your turns. Resolve the effects of the

first order before issuing the second order.

 

voice of command: 

 

Take Aim!

Re-roll hit rolls of 1 for all the models in the ordered unit until the

end of the phase.

 

 

2x4 man squad with plasma guns - 16 shoots with rapid fire range, re-rolling one's, so can overcharge all of them! 32 max dmg output with s8 and -3 ap

2x4 man squad with melta guns - 8 shoots re-rolling ones, with 48 max dmg output with s8 ap -4.

 

No unit/vehicle can be safe...

 

Point's cost:

 

2x40 tempestor prime - 80

 

4x4 man squad - 144

 

2x4x7 plasma - 56

2x4x12 melta - 96

 

total points: 376 points

 

for extra 20 point's you can give both tempestors power fist, they are hitting base on 3+ and have 3 attacks base.

 

Best thing they can "deep strike".

 

For comparison:

 

6xinceptor squad 180 base with 28x12 plasma exterminator 516 points with max 36 plasma shoots without re-roll 1, so less chance to overcharge them.

 

I'm very exited to try them

 

Oh, and they have some serious advantage.... they're not Primaris , and they give you 1 extra command point.

 

 

 

 

Also another idea to have some serious antipsyker stuff:

 

and quick question if we make vanguarddetachment with "Imperium" key word is this still available?

 

 

1. HQ - Inquisitor lord hector rex - FW model, he is in "forces of the adeptus astartes", 2+/3++ with sword d3 dmg, and best: he can deny 3 powers a turn... and have psyhic hood ability.  5W, 3+/3+, only minus T3, but with 2+/3++ he can be safe. Also he can deep strike (as terminator armour). 100 pts!

 

 

1. Vindicare assasin 90 pts

2. cullexus assasin 85 pts

3. 3x penitent engines 165 pts

 

so 440 points and what we have here:  great anti psyhic defense quite strong and durable one. (the sword has bonuses when fighting with deamons)

Vindicare... in my opinion great guy. Wounding on 2+ 72 inch range, wounding infantry always on 2+,-3 to save, no inv. can be taken against him... D3 wounds on "6" d6. + -2 to hit roll's when targeting him.... and no cover bonus for target... I think he is beast.

Cullexus - another psyker hunter...-2 to psyhic tests.... no d6 smite:)

3x penitent engines.... Why you need tot ake agressors with heavy flamer wneh you have them!

 

T6, W7, 7" of movement.... S10 in CC, and 2heavy flamers each.... . ok worse save... 4+, but.... on 4+ they attack again...

 

and there is written: Desperate for Redemption: Roll a D6 after completing the first set of attacks for a unit of Penitent Engines in

each Fight phase. On roll of 4+, the unit can immediately pile in and attack for a second time. So no 2CP for interrupting charge... immediately they say.... .

 

So guys what you think about that?

stemplar - I think that when is strict to shoting or CC there is directly written., So rolls to wound means all type of rolls to wound:)

 

 

forgot one thing:

 

penitent engines have zealot rules:

 

ZEALOT

You can re-roll failed hit rolls for a unit with this ability in a turn in

which it charged, made a heroic intervention, or was charged by an

enemy unit.

 

so 4 S10 -3 3dmg with re-roll to hit and on 4+ strikes again 4 times.... .

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Aegir_Einarsson

[Ebon Hand]

Follow up question:

 

If the buff just says 'rolls to wound' can that be in both shooting and fighting phases?? Any reason why not?

 

In which case ... that's Good, right?

Yes it's both, that's why he has good synergy with rerolls to hit.

[Firepower]

So some Chaos specific thoughts *oh so subtle direction back to the topic*

 

Death to the Traitors, Wisdom of the Ancients, Chaplain Dreadnought.  Seems like a good 1 shot hard counter if you end up getting stuck in and really need whatever you're fighting to die immediately (or at least to level the playing field).

 

Standard of the Emperor Ascendant seems like something that would annoy Night Lords.

 

What weapons are best for gunning down Marines?

[Marshal_Roujakis]

So some Chaos specific thoughts *oh so subtle direction back to the topic*

 

Death to the Traitors, Wisdom of the Ancients, Chaplain Dreadnought.  Seems like a good 1 shot hard counter if you end up getting stuck in and really need whatever you're fighting to die immediately (or at least to level the playing field).

 

Standard of the Emperor Ascendant seems like something that would annoy Night Lords.

 

What weapons are best for gunning down Marines?

 

Plasma and Grav would b the best bet, Heavy Bolters if you're short on points but does normal against Nurgle's finest, if you plan on bringing a Land Raider but don't have enough boots or not planning on embarking Terminators, then a Redeemer works for clearing out Chaos Space Marines wonderfully nicely... or you could stay cheap and force dice with hurricanes instead...

[Ciler]

So some Chaos specific thoughts *oh so subtle direction back to the topic*

 

Death to the Traitors, Wisdom of the Ancients, Chaplain Dreadnought.  Seems like a good 1 shot hard counter if you end up getting stuck in and really need whatever you're fighting to die immediately (or at least to level the playing field).

 

Standard of the Emperor Ascendant seems like something that would annoy Night Lords.

 

What weapons are best for gunning down Marines?

The ideal weapon will have S5 (for 3+ to wound) or S8 (for 2+ to wound) and AP-3, so basically plasma. If you have rerolls, consider overcharging.

 

My fav shooty loadout at the moment (i think i already mentioned) is combi-plasma on SB, plasma gun and grav-canon on initiates. I like it because all weapons have the same range and properties (rapid fire). At 12" that's 4 plasma shots, 4 grav shots, and 6 to 8 bolter shots (if you're feeling fancy with the combi).

 

Finally, having said all that, bolter fire by the bucket might also do the job.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Ciler

[Aegir_Einarsson]

And that is the reason that i consider scions backup. Just swap melta squad for all plasma squad shave 40 points And take all goodnes of This support. 32 plasma shots, overcharged because of re-rolling ones due to orders is nasty. No saves wounding on two 2 dmg ( even with 5+ death guard fnp ) is huge chance to wipe out a squad. Finishes the job with tempestor with power fist 3 attacks each.

 

And that wasn't off top firepower:):)

Edited August 10, 2017 by Aegir_Einarsson

[Banjulhu]

My base plan form most things is currently three min sized Las-Plas-CombiPlas crusader squads and some centurions standing near to an ancient with the crusader helm. Drop in some empty drop pods turn 1 to deny easy charge lanes then start shooting and never stop. Possibly have Helbrecht, Grim and some LC Termmies in a LRC for any thing that needs to die in melee.

[Aegir_Einarsson]

Drop in some empty drop pods turn 1 to deny easy charge -> that is Nice idea!

[Castellan Doren]

Only fought thousand sons once since 8th, and that was a magnus arihman combo list.

 

But the rest of chaos i plan on using my standard marines lists until proven inefficient otherwise.

 

2 cc crusader squads w/ rhinos & Ec, lc vet sgt's.

 

JP Chap & assault marines, lc vet sgt

 

Pred dest w/ hb

Pred ann w/ las

1-3 dreads

Maybe LRC &or Terminators DS. Depending on points

[Ciler]

For 95 points a piece, you might as well deploy scouts or something.

[ONDIG]

Black Tide.As always.

2-Crusader squads outfitted for CQC

Crusader squad laz-plaz neophytes w/bolters to serve as a fire base support for the other 2 crusades

LRC to carry TDA or Swordbrethren to the thick of it

Knight or Rifleman Dreads to deal w/ Defilers,Lord of skulls,Heldrakes etc

Additional support as points/PL allow

The Firebase additionally serves as bubble wrap to prevent previously mentioned Warptalons(they,ignore overwatch) or other shenanigans that may attempt to assault the LRC a popular tactic these days

Crusades 1+2 take,right and left flanks respectively to stomp bikers or Khorne dogs

Additionally if it's Zerkers let them come to you these scum now fight twice and if you let them wear themselves out (40 odd bolter shots plus 30 odd shots from LRC) should slow their roll nicely.I leave HQ and Elite choices vague cuz we all know those are gonna be EC,Grimaldus veterans according to taste anyways!

[Brother Christopher]

My base plan form most things is currently three min sized Las-Plas-CombiPlas crusader squads and some centurions standing near to an ancient with the crusader helm. Drop in some empty drop pods turn 1 to deny easy charge lanes then start shooting and never stop. Possibly have Helbrecht, Grim and some LC Termmies in a LRC for any thing that needs to die in melee.

 

This sounds like fun, but it saddens me that we have to resolve to shooting to deal with our foes effectively. Also, both Centurions and Drop Pods are a bit expensive in points, regrettably.

 

Regarding pods, blocking charges, but also creating larger areas of deep-strike denial, is a very interesting idea. But why keep them empty, when you can use the pods to position your Crusader Squads?

[Banjulhu]

 

Regarding pods, blocking charges, but also creating larger areas of deep-strike denial, is a very interesting idea. But why keep them empty, when you can use the pods to position your Crusader Squads?

 

Mostly because if I have bodies in them I need to drop them in a position that is optimal for the unit that needs to delivered rather than optimal for hindering enemy movement. A lot of this will depend on how big deep striking (and similar) alpha stirke armies become as more codecies come out

 

I'm not entirely sold on Dev Centurions being my shooting go to unit, I picked them initially just because they pack a lot of guns into a small space. A couple of dreads could also fill that space or a normal dev squad packing tasty big guns.

[bolvar]

For 95 points a piece, you might as well deploy scouts or something.

 

Neophytes without their Initiates? What's this, anarchy? Anarchy leads to chaos, which is heresy and... You know what happens when you mix heresy and black templars right?

 

Shall I accompany you to the Chaplaincy?

[Brother Christopher]

Banjulhu, I feel that GW has managed to completely kill Devastator Centurions at the moment. There is no way to justify their price in points! 80 pts for a single Centurion suit is ridiculous, and you need three. You are therefore probably way better off with a couple of 'regular' or venerable dreadnoughts, really. And dreads are a more durable platform.

 

On the other hand, I'm curious what you think about Assault Centurions. With the point decrease, their mighty close combat weapons (add Helbrecht to the mix for some real ploughing!) and decent short-range fire power (flamers and bolters should give us a nice number of dice), they seem like a go-to pick for dealing with the enemy's larger units in melee and a decent choice for thinning out some hordes. The "only" downside is that they need an expensive transport to get where they're needed, making the whole package rather pricey.

[Ciler]

Banjulhu, I feel that GW has managed to completely kill Devastator Centurions at the moment. There is no way to justify their price in points! 80 pts for a single Centurion suit is ridiculous, and you need three. You are therefore probably way better off with a couple of 'regular' or venerable dreadnoughts, really. And dreads are a more durable platform.

I think I may have mentionned that before, but a mate of mine took them to a regional tourney and absolutely hammered the hell out of every list that was thrown at him.

 

6 of those guys will output up to 54 wounds at S8 AP-2 with the centurion missile launchers only, while moving and ignoring cover. On average, they will reliably wipe out an entire marine squad in one shooting phase, for instance. And that's without firing the heavy bolters if you go cheap. Give them re-rolls to hit and wound and they are wont to take down a land raider.