XstaSea Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 I read the article by Goatboy today where he reviews the new codex and put together a sample list idea which looked very cool. I think overall us Nightlord players got a really good shout in the new book. Out of all the traits/stratagems etc i have seen i think ours are some of the most thematic and downright cool options to pick. The idea of putting the fear into little plastic moulds has never been so exciting! Obviously there are going to be a lot of cool combos and options and i didn't see a thread for us to discuss these so i thought i would start one. So fellow Nightlords players what are you guys all thinking and what is getting you excited? Maybe this is a good place to throw some ideas at each other and see what we come up with! I am personally thinking that we need fast moving troops and the main objective is to get as many of our units close to the enemy. With the combos available to us all we really need to do is slay 1-2 models and half of the squad is gonna be running for the gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Abaia Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 I haven't played much vs Astra Militarum yet this edition, so I'm not sure how prevalent tank squadrons will be. But AM tanks are LD7, and one of my go to anti-tank units has been and continues to be a min-sized Raptor unit with 2xmelta and a fist. You throw an Icon of Despair one that, land the killing blow on one Leman Russ and a second one will run away on a 4+. A 2+ if you have 2 more units within 6". Crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Vehicle squadrons operate as separate units once the battle begins so moral isn't going to affect them at all. In fact unfortunately because of commissars the NL tactics are not going to do much against AM unless you can snipe the commissars. You'll actually do better against marine units despite how silly that is. As far as general NL tactics go, MSU assault heavy is definetly going to be the way to go, focus on stuff like terminators, raptors, bikes and warp talons that can get in close for an assault quickly. Take them in small five man units backed up by characters and you'll easily get that -3 moral debuff. That doesn't mean standard infantry is useless though, certainly still a place for them I just think every NL list will want at least a few deep striking assault units. Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Abaia Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Vehicle squadrons operate as separate units once the battle begins so moral isn't going to affect them at all. That sounds like a good rule. It would be table-flipping bait otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galron Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 I posted my tentative list on the list forum. I didn't use any icons but I do have a large number of jump pack units with two larger ones escorted by characters. Should allow for at least a -2 every time. I have two dedicated assault units, a 10 man raptor and 10 man talon, the other 4 or so are 5 man units with either melta or plasma. Backing them up I have a fairly strong back field of several tactical squads including a 10 man squad armed for melee for taking and holding objectives, havocs, pred, and a couple different dreadnought chassis. Therefore I am not totally reliant on 1st turn charges and can hold back and shoot forcing the opponent to come to me. I don't know how well this army will do vs hordes but should be fairly effective against elite armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghorgul Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 I'm thinking currently getting Fire Raptor and maybe one other efficient shooting unit, haven't decided yet. Then all other forces just run at enemy, but the goal is to get up close but mostly to just shoot at them from up close to get the -X Ld stacks. Not sure how good Fire Raptor will be, but atleast it will suck up enemy fire as it is such a huge dakkamachine. Anyway, any efficient Ld debuff army needs good amount of firepower, it's better to be able to force many units to take Morale Test instead outright crushing 1 unit every turn. Of course we need firepower too to take out the vehicles/monsters/characters. Dream case would be that we could overwhelm and destroy the units that are totally unaffected by Morale while simultaneously making other morale affected units get destroyed by the Morale Tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galron Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Fire Raptors are great, just stupidly expensive in points to the point I cant use mine. I agree with your second point though, its why half my force is assault and the other is firepower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
total.boredom Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 (edited) Vehicle squadrons operate as separate units once the battle begins so moral isn't going to affect them at all. In fact unfortunately because of commissars the NL tactics are not going to do much against AM unless you can snipe the commissars. You'll actually do better against marine units despite how silly that is. As far as general NL tactics go, MSU assault heavy is definetly going to be the way to go, focus on stuff like terminators, raptors, bikes and warp talons that can get in close for an assault quickly. Take them in small five man units backed up by characters and you'll easily get that -3 moral debuff. That doesn't mean standard infantry is useless though, certainly still a place for them I just think every NL list will want at least a few deep striking assault units. It would be useful for lowering the leadership for the Malignatas weapons on the Sicaran Venator and Deredeo, but I'm not sure if even that would make those weapons worth it. Edited August 8, 2017 by total.boredom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Vehicle squadrons operate as separate units once the battle begins so moral isn't going to affect them at all. In fact unfortunately because of commissars the NL tactics are not going to do much against AM unless you can snipe the commissars. You'll actually do better against marine units despite how silly that is. As far as general NL tactics go, MSU assault heavy is definetly going to be the way to go, focus on stuff like terminators, raptors, bikes and warp talons that can get in close for an assault quickly. Take them in small five man units backed up by characters and you'll easily get that -3 moral debuff. That doesn't mean standard infantry is useless though, certainly still a place for them I just think every NL list will want at least a few deep striking assault units. It would be useful for lowering the leadership for the Malignatas weapons on the Sicaran Venator and Deredeo, but I'm not sure if even that would make those weapons worth it. How about butcher cannons via a Contemptor or a Decimator? The weapon profile is solid even without the morale penalty. Or are those right out because of their weird 'not cumulative' phrasing on the leadership penalty? Do they not stack with any other leadership modifiers or is it simply saying multiple butchers don't stack with each other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XstaSea Posted August 8, 2017 Author Share Posted August 8, 2017 I agree I think we need hard, fast hitting units. I'm thinking raptors/talons bikers and I'm surprised no one has mentioned him but HELDRAKES definitely add to the terror! I think normal CSM squads have a place we still need boys to go get objectives as well as add to the fear bubble that we can project! I think it's also safe to say we are going to be seeing a lot of chaos lords with those NL relic weapon. The claws that are so blood stained they have gone black. The stats on those claws is insane! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daionosis Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) My original list I made after the leaks really manifested used MSU principles with mostly shooting a close combat support. However I've come to realise in order for our supremely tasty stratagems and psychic powers to be effective we need bigger units, otherwise the CP's are kinda wasted. The weird thing is though, as most of these special abilities can only be used once per phase or turn, that means you probably do not want more than one, perhaps two. And our buffs are so amazingly strong! VotLW is supremely deadly, and that Khorne strategem which lets you attack twice.. Itś hard to pull off but if you get your bonusses when you need them, things like Talons can slaughter most of a knight in a single phase. ->EDIT, that stratagem is at the end of the fight phase, not a lot of Talons will be left then. I had mathhammered 9 wounds by ten Talons in one strike, doubling that with the stratagem, but sadly over half of the squad will be dead after the Knight gets to strike back. EDIT: I am a big fan of daemon engines, but seeing as they do not get the awesome legion traits I dropped them to max out the traits. Edited August 9, 2017 by Daionosis Lord Abaia 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isengrin Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 I am pretty stoked about our new legion rules and am looking forward to getting a game in with them. However, as Azekai has already asked, do we have anything like an official response to the quandary with Butcher Cannons and if they stack with Terror Tactics? A contemptor with two butchers sounds really nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galron Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 How are you using Khorne stratagems with a Night Lord army? Don't you need a world eater legion to use those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Shumway Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Nope. You need A WE detatchment to use WE stratagems. Khorne stratagems can be used by anything marked Khorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XstaSea Posted August 10, 2017 Author Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) Yeah so you could take 1 Unit of Khorne Berzerkers and give up one command point to get the world eaters trait on them. Obviously there are other dettachments available to not lose CP's but this would be the min detachment you could take right? I cant remember the name of it.... Edited August 10, 2017 by XstaSea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Aiwass Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Auxiliary detachment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnboardG1 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) I am pretty stoked about our new legion rules and am looking forward to getting a game in with them. However, as Azekai has already asked, do we have anything like an official response to the quandary with Butcher Cannons and if they stack with Terror Tactics? A contemptor with two butchers sounds really nice. I read that as "This does not cause additional -2 modifiers for extra wounds". It is ambiguous but given that it's explicitly stated in the WHC article that every other morale aura stacks as long as the name isn't the same I don't see why it wouldn't. I was trying to work out the max debuff you could get, which seems to be -3 (trait), -2 (Butcher cannon), -2 (Raptors), -1 (Hellforged Proteus), Roll 2d6 take the highest (Lord of Terror). I think you might be able to get one more from demon allies, but< -8Ld seems like overkill unless you're fighting Orks (and that -8 should actually be enough to start forcing morale casualties even in big blobs of boyz if you charge them with enough oomph). Edited August 10, 2017 by OnboardG1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghorgul Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) Yeah so you could take 1 Unit of Khorne Berzerkers and give up one command point to get the world eaters trait on them. Obviously there are other dettachments available to not lose CP's but this would be the min detachment you could take right? I cant remember the name of it.... Yes this is possible, but then you would be limited to foot slogging berserkers I think? As no <Night Lords> Transport bought in <Night Lords> Detachment could take in your <World Eaters> Berserkers. Although <Night Lords> Dreadclaw might allow it, the rule is a bit vague: It says it can transport 10 <Legion> or <Mark of Chaos> Infantry. So if you make it <Night Lords> <Khorne> Dreadclaw you might be allowed to take in <World Eaters> <Khorne> Berserkers. Although this seems a bit too gamey to me already, and also unfluffy. EDIT: You would be better off if you just do the patrol detachment (0 CP cost, 1 HQ, 1 Troop minimum) and then add the transport there. Having Lord will boost them anyway and I think you need the transport for the berserkers. Any sensible opponent who sees your World Eaters Berserkers foot slogging at them will prioritize fire at them, and it is even better if they are forced to use their (likely) limited and precious Antitank shots at that pesky rhino instead of your Predators/Land Raiders/Fire Raptors etc. Edited August 10, 2017 by Ghorgul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daionosis Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I love the +1 attack for the WE trait as well (imagine that on Warp Talons...) but I don't think it is worth flying in hoops for, NL berzerkers are good as well and kill stuff in the morale phase. Should do the trick in most cases I think. The only weird thing is how much better (cheaper) the slaanesh stratagem is compared to the Khorne one. Why is the Khorne one three times as expensive whilst it entails more risk as it is done after the enemy has hit you back? All my shooty raptors are gonna have the MoS for sure :-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnboardG1 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I love the +1 attack for the WE trait as well (imagine that on Warp Talons...) but I don't think it is worth flying in hoops for, NL berzerkers are good as well and kill stuff in the morale phase. Should do the trick in most cases I think. The only weird thing is how much better (cheaper) the slaanesh stratagem is compared to the Khorne one. Why is the Khorne one three times as expensive whilst it entails more risk as it is done after the enemy has hit you back? All my shooty raptors are gonna have the MoS for sure :-P My missile launcher Havocs will like this mark too! Daionosis 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Flamer Havocs all the way! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XstaSea Posted August 10, 2017 Author Share Posted August 10, 2017 Oh yeah i know there are better detachments to take i was just listning the absolute minimum detachment. I still thinkk it is a bit silly that a marked transport cannot take other legion infantry. I mean fluff wise if there was a big battle going on and a unit of Khorne space marines got stranded and an Alpha Legion Land Raider drove past, surely they would be able to hitch a ride? Or atleast kill everyone in the Land Raider and hijack the vehicle. Skulls for the skull throne and all that jazz... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daionosis Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) Fluff wise it makes total sense, but rules wise it would open up some possibilities for abuse I think. EDIT: I'm trying to come up with a way to abuse the Slaanesh Stratagem more than Frontline gamings' 10 combi plasma terminators and I do not seem to manage it. What do you guys think? Edited August 10, 2017 by Daionosis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnboardG1 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) Fluff wise it makes total sense, but rules wise it would open up some possibilities for abuse I think. EDIT: I'm trying to come up with a way to abuse the Slaanesh Stratagem more than Frontline gamings' 10 combi plasma terminators and I do not seem to manage it. What do you guys think? Standard combi bolters + power axes would actually be pretty brutal as well with VOTLW because you're wounding everything that's less than T8 on 4s. 80 shots with a 97% hit rate gives you 38 wounds (12 unsaved) on anything >T4 and <T8, 16.5 wounds on marines, 41 wounds on orks, 42 wounds on guardsmen. If you fancy spending a few more points then you can add a couple of heavy flamers on top of that. Edited August 10, 2017 by OnboardG1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 EDIT: I'm trying to come up with a way to abuse the Slaanesh Stratagem more than Frontline gamings' 10 combi plasma terminators and I do not seem to manage it. What do you guys think? You could always just take Havocs with Lascannons to delete some Vehicle/Monster, or with Flamer to delete some Horde. Autocannons or Heavy Bolter are always an option as well as are Missile Launcher. Or you just include some Noise Marines with Blast Master and Sonic Blaster in your list. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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