The Nihilus Crusade - Vindicator Heresy

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Praise be Brothers. My Crusade has returned from the warp to wage war upon the vile enemies of the blessed Emperor.

​In real speak, I'm returning to the hobby as an adult, having last played as a fairly young teenager. I had Templars back when I was a kid and wouldn't change them for anything else now. I started collecting in the 'good old days' when Codex Armageddon came out. I stopped playing/collecting not long after Codex Black Templars so missed all the fluff deterioration which happened after that. (Although I have enjoyed Guy Haley's books and loved Helsreach.)

​I'm now back, just bought my first Templar Upgrade box, (which didn't exist when I last collected!) and am looking to expand the crusade.

I've opted for the title of the Nihilus Crusade as a fluff reason not to take any Primaris. My Crusade has been lost in the Warp for over a decade and has returned to the Dark Imperium far beyond the reach of any Indomitus reinforcements. (Also I've been looking closely at the new releases and just don't like them. The only nice looking model is the new chaplain. But it's not worth the cost really.)

I may post some pictures later when my painting gets to a stage where it doesn't shame our order.

One thing I will ask is whether anyone has the fluff and painting guide pages from the White Dwarf issue in 2000 when they released the original special edition Emperor's Champion. (245 UKish??) I think those pages got detached from the issue when the champ was painted. (I bought mine from the store on the release day, less than an hour after opening and it was the last one in the shop. Thankfully my mum leant over the crowd of short children and plucked it from the manager's hand.) I recall they had a pretty awesome short story about Sigismund in the Armour of Faith at the imperial palace, hunting down foul daemons.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Brother Adelard

[Sword Brother Adelard]

First update: Today I finished my first crusader squad in about 15 years! 10 marines outfitted for bringing a swift, up close and personal death to the enemies of the Emperor!

 

 

 

Moving forward with my crusade (or is it back?) I have dug out some of my older marines and readied them for new transfers, the old ones having long scratched and worn away. Here's the happy queue for crisp heraldry:

 

[Firepower]

An old guard too stubborn to even consider changing from the glory that is Templars?  And one that takes years to paint something?

 

I sense a kindred spirit. :teehee:  

 

Welcome back to the Crusade.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

They didn't take me years, I just haven't added anything in that time. The old ones have been in my mum's loft lost in the empyrean...

[Firepower]

They didn't take me years, I just haven't added anything in that time. 

 

Same thing :P

[Sword Brother Adelard]

So, I'm progressing with my Knightfall vow. My marines are built and undercoated and my Razorback has most of its base colours on it. (and a painted interior.)

 

Also, my LRC has arrived and I've started looking at magnetizing. It seems like it's fairly straightforward in theory, (maybe not practice) but I'm just wondering if someone can point me in the right direction of what magnets I should be purchasing? Sizes, ebay shops etc.? (I'm UK based)

[Firepower]

I typically work with 3mm x 1mm discs, neodymium magnets.  Their strength is graded by n#, and I find anything lower than n50 (which seems to be roughly top strength) too weak for most work.  I didn't used to pay attention to the n grade, but after once buying a bunch of smaller magnets for magnetizing hands, and discovering that they couldn't even work up the strength to hold up a plastic sword, I've made a point of always noting the listed strength before a purchase.  N42 versus n50 may not sound like a big gap, but it certainly is.

 

2mm magnets could generally do just as well as 3mm with most applications, but for one major caveat- bonding directly to partnered magnets versus metallic surfaces.  When magnetizing vehicles in particular, it's occasionally easier to just put a sheet of tin on one of the sides of the bond, rather than spending double the magnets and all the time needed to make sure everything aligns perfectly.  For instance, the arms of my dreads are held up by magnets inside the shoulders of the model, and a circular sheet of tin on the arms.  A much easier one is by holding on the sponsons of a tank by simply putting a sheet of tin along the inside of the hull's recess before gluing the chassis together.  When working this way, the bigger the magnet the better, because you aren't actually having to drill anything, and the extra strength compensates for not using a pair of magnets.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Firepower

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Thanks! Especially for using metric, all of the websites I'd seen used Imperial measurements.

​With regards to sponsons and tin, where are you sourcing it? Cans or elsewhere?

[Marshal Wolfhart]

tin off of cans works fine aas long as it's properly cleaned and protected against rust (primed mine).

I use 2x1mm n52 discs for all things infantry. Any larger magnets i buy on demand, when i got the kit before me and know the size of hole i wanna drill.

I second fp though, a friend of mine used n45 magnets for arms+weapons on crisis suits and they always hang down and come off way easier.

Also if you have heavy parts and can't drill a wider diameter, you can stack multiple magnets on top each other, as long as you got the depth. Their cohesion adds up as long as you align them in the same direction.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

So, my Knightfall Razorback is progressing well, just needs highlighting and transfers. I've been rushing it a little as I'm planning to actually get a game in tomorrow for the first time since I started this all again!

 

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Good job on the Razorback. Edited August 31, 2017 by Bjorn Firewalker

[Sword Brother Adelard]

So, today my crusade got it's first blooding. (More like a bloody nose)

 

I took my Champion, a Castellan, a dreadnought and three crusader squads. a 17 man combat focused squad, a 10 man combat squad with multi melta and meltagun in a rhino and a shooty 10 man squad. Roughly 1,000 points.

I faced off against the Death Guard starter set in the Dark Imperium box.

 

It was good to play a game after so long and I learnt A LOT. I also made a lot of mistakes.

 

My biggest mistake was to push the rhino too far up the table. It got charged in my opponent's first turn and swamped by poxwalkers. The rest of the game was spent with my 10 marines stuck inside doing nothing until it exploded, only three were able to find the room to disembark.

Meanwhile, my 17 man squad foot slogged it up the side at the plague marines taking cover in a building. It took them ages to get there, and then when they did they couldn't get enough models into combat due to the nature of the terrain. The battle then descended into a melee mess around my poor trapped Rhino where I came off worse as Death Guard are so hard to kill! Their Lord of Contagion teleported behind my lines and promptly waltzed through my Champion, took almost all of my Castellan's wounds and then started scything through my bolter squad. Who took no wounds off him in 4 rounds of combat.

The other real worry was the malignant Plaguecaster. He did a LOT of damage, and as we were playing a beginner's match we weren't playing CP, so I couldn't deny anything.

 

Overall a sound thrashing. I vow to do better next time.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

For my second Knightfall vow I have submitted an LRC and a chaplain and I wanted some modelling advice on them both.

 

The chaplain is actually my first ever finecast model, it seems pretty well moulded detail wise, just a heck of a lot of flash, particularly on the base and a slightly wonky crozius. How do I go about straightening that and should I be wary of using normal files on finecast to remove the flash?

 

on the LRC, Firepower, above you mentioned using metal inside the hull for magnets to adhre to, what do you use as raw materials? Cans of some sort?

[Marshal Wolfhart]

To straighten finecast you can just bathe the model in warm water (a bit over 30 °C do it for me) and apply a LITTLE pressure, then keep it in shape while cooling back down.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I've had a crack at magnetising my Land Raider and here are some pics:

 

 

I did a lot of research before attempting this, I've not magnetised any models before and now I've done it I wish I'd learnt to do it years ago. Magnetizing my original Land Raider would have saved me a lot of time trying to fix it when the Lascannons snapped off with the axles still inside them!

One thing i did decide from seeing various tutorials is that I wanted to be able to move the sponsons backwards and forwards, but still see inside the land raider. A lot of the methods online obscure the side entrances to place a magnet centrally. I want to be able to clearly see inside the tank at the painted interior (next step!)
 

So, what did i do. Well, the weapons were pretty straightforward. I drilled out the 'axles' on the central spine and replaced them with magnets. The size suggested by Firepower was perfect for the job: they fit snugly in the existing holes and are the same diameter as the axles. All of the weapons are now exchangeable and the side plates can be removed as well. (not pictured as they are still on the sprue awaiting a white undercoat.

 

The sponsons were more tricky. I drilled out small holes in the sides of the sponsons and half-embedded the magnets. I knew from a quick experiment that the magnets would hold even with the tank hull panel between them, so I used this to my advantage. Whilst the sponson magnets had to be fairly flush and neat:

 

 

The hull magnets could be more messy as they won't be visible once the tank is glued together.

 

 

As you can see, I had to gouge out some holes for the magnets to sink into in order to get them closer to the ones mounted in the sponsons, I needed all 4 as 2 and 3 would not hold the sponsons on. placing them was actually really easy, I just applied the glue, placed a magnet near the holes and they flew into place!

 

I also decided to use a magnet for the aerial so that it can be removed without snapping.

 

 

All considered, I'm cautiously optimistic about how this will turn out.

[Marshal Wolfhart]

Looks promising! I too had a revelation after first applying some magnets, it's really easy to do and so cheap compared to extra models with other options.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I was browsing eBay recently and managed to pick up a pretty much brand new FW BT Venerable Dread for less than a plastic one delivered. So I'm pretty chuffed.

I want to model him fairly distinctively, and thought that by butchering the axe arm from the Space Wolves Venerable dread I could kitbash him holding a sword, which would be pretty zealous.

 

My query is, does anyone have any idea what sword I could use that would be a) suitably Templary and b) decently sized? I did consider the Dreadknight sword, but I think I can do better.

 

Any ideas?

(Also, if anyone knows where I can get hold of the SW Dread arm in the UK I would be very grateful!)

[DarkCrusader93]

A lucky find you had there i already own a FW Templar dread but have been looking for another one for ages so colour me envious brother,

a fantastic idea you have there for personalizing him!  i plan to do something similar to a Contemptor Dread the only sword i know of that would look right would be the Grey Knight one outside of GW though i have no idea sorry.

I have personally been looking for the Space Wolf dread axe arm for my Chaplain Dread to convert into a Crozius but have had no luck with bits sites as most of them either don't get it back in stock or if they do it sells out in seconds. best place to look would probably Ebay or other such places short of just buying the SW dread unfortunately i'm in the UK too so unless you get lucky that seems to be the state of things here.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

It seems a popular part, I saw one guy searching for months on one of the Facebook buy and sell pages.

 

How about the regular venerable dread fist? Would that grip a suitable sword?

[DarkCrusader93]

It really is I've personally been looking for months myself

 

The one shaped like a hand might do alright but you might have to do a bit of cutting to the swords handle to get it to fit but i don't see why it wouldn't work look forward to hearing how it goes for you

[Sword Brother Adelard]

So I had another game today, and I got my arse handed to me. Again. This time by Nids, last time by Orks. both times I've had similar problems.

​The first issue is my own stupid fault. I need to tighten up my deployment so as to not leave reinforcement gaps behind my lines. With the Orks it was two bikes who snuck in as reserves, with the Nids it was their big drop pod floaty thing stuffed with Genestealers. Both then managed to charge my LRC and effectively take it out of action for the rest of the game. (The second game it at least had the good grace to explode and take a Carnifex with it!) I also fell foul of a flying Hive Tyrant and a Trygon dragging 20 genestealers in its tunnelly wake.

 

The other problem is horde units. with the Orks it was the 30 man boyz units, with the nids it was two 20 man Genestealer hordes arriving far sooner than I had time to take them down with shooting. Then, once they were on me, I feel like I  lack enough simple boltguns to blow chunks off them before they reach my lines. 

 

So tonight, still reeling from my defeat I took out all of my basic marines: my choppy crusaders, shooty crusaders and  'devastators' in order to reorganise the squads to maximise the amount of 6 man multi-option shooty units I can, while keeping two 10 man choppy squads to support things like my characters when they assault.

 

I should therefore go, having swapped a load of arms, heads, guns and re-purposed an old deathwatch kill team I never got round to finishing from having one 6-man shooty crusader squad and one 10-man shooty crusader squad to having four 6/7 man crusader squads each with a sword brother with boltgun and chainsword, a heavy weapon and a support weapon. These should be able to lay down a bit more versatile fire.

 

I then feel like I need something which can actually hit hard in close combat, my normal assault marines just don't do anything. Ever. I'm thinking therefore of Vanguards or Terminators.

 

Does any of this sound like a good plan? 

 

[DarkCrusader93]

​The first issue is my own stupid fault. I need to tighten up my deployment so as to not leave reinforcement gaps behind my lines. With the Orks it was two bikes who snuck in as reserves, with the Nids it was their big drop pod floaty thing stuffed with Genestealers. Both then managed to charge my LRC and effectively take it out of action for the rest of the game. (The second game it at least had the good grace to explode and take a Carnifex with it!) I also fell foul of a flying Hive Tyrant and a Trygon dragging 20 genestealers in its tunnelly wake.

 

The other problem is horde units. with the Orks it was the 30 man boyz units, with the nids it was two 20 man Genestealer hordes arriving far sooner than I had time to take them down with shooting. Then, once they were on me, I feel like I  lack enough simple boltguns to blow chunks off them before they reach my lines. 

 

I then feel like I need something which can actually hit hard in close combat, my normal assault marines just don't do anything. Ever. I'm thinking therefore of Vanguards or Terminators.

 

Brother about the deployment zones have you thought about doing something similar to the enemy? for instance using drop pods or deep striking behind the hordes once they have moved away from the more squishy units? 

 

The only advice i can give you about horde units is weight of shots and staying as mobile as possible so flyers might be a good investment? I have two storm talons and two storm ravens both with the weapon options that give me more shots i have won games against orks doing this.

 

Vanguards are a personal favorite of mine although they hit like trucks on the charge they are unfortunately very squishy with only one wound you might want to invest in giving them storm shields so they always get a 3+ although it puts the cost of them up a lot. Terminators might be a good choice i don't use them personally because i'm not a fan of the models so I can't give you advice there brother.

Edited December 11, 2017 by DarkCrusader93

[Brother Christopher]

In a strange way, it saddened me to read that you decided (or were forced to) swap weapons. This is another example of 'bad game design' practices, since a gaming system should equally support all playstyles it consists of. Sorry for this shot of negativity, though.

 

Regarding advice, I'd recommend dropping the LRC. Again, it saddens me to say this, but it's not worth it. For its price, you can get 2-3 other other units which are able to offer you more firepower and transport capacity. Run your Assault Marines as Vanguard Vets. The difference in points is negligible and you get +1 attack per model. Flyers (talons and ravens) are somewhat costly, but in theory (or in power levels) they should be worth it. Again, Terminators are too pricey - they will get overwhelmed by hordes' weight of dice quickly. Although, it would be awesome to get some Tactical Terminators with storm bolters deep strike, lay some fire and then teleport back to the homing device to reposition and survive another round or two.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I agree on the LRC. I don't mind the points increase on the weaponry, the chassis is just too expensive now.

 

I haven't actually ended up swapping many weapons, just re-purposing old models into more shooty units, I still have two 10 man tide squads to go old school choppy should the mood take me!

[SydonianDragoon404]

I'm having some of the same thoughts brother, and some time I'll do a write up on my Crusade thread about list ideas I've been playing around with personally. What I've found is the following:

 

Land Raider Crusaders before the point cost increase were great, tough, but had 1 major weakness, getting Assaulted. Players at my local had figured this out before I decided to swap it out. Before the point increase, less than 300 points of firepower being taken out of the game for a turn wasn't that bad, but now that the LRC is more expensive it hurts a lot more when you're missing that firepower. My plan here is to drop my LRC for a Repulsor. I plan to run a Rhino and Razorback in addition to transport additional troops into battle, I can expand on this if you want me to, but essentially, the Repulsor with the dakka loadout is now cheaper than the LRC, has the fly keyword, and the firepower it puts out is comparable to the LRC. You will likely find yourself with similar results against most targets. 

 

Second is that adding an assault element to a space marine army is tricky. You have to decide what you want and how you go about investing in it. There's a lot of thing out there that have protection or debuffs specifically against shooting, so investing in the assault isn't bad, but it can be frustrating when it doesn't work out. 

 

Essentially, an elite assault unit from the marine book will never have more than 2 attacks base. That's it. From my personal experience, 2 attacks with any power weapon doesn't cut it. It just doesn't deal enough damage unless you're investing in a 10 man squad of VV all with power weapons. What you have basically is a choice between 3 options from my perspective. Option 1) Cheap, weight of dice attacks: VV with double chainsword are 4 attacks each, this will blender hordes. Option 2) Make it count: Taking a heavier option like TH/SS Terminators, or standard Terminators will make those 2 attacks count when they hit as hard as those weapons do. This can get expensive, and this investment will be targeted by your opponent with Plasma, Mortal Wounds, etc. Option 3) Paired Lightning Claws: This is the only way for an elite unit to get more than 2 attacks with a power weapon. That extra attack per guy matters more than many would like to think, as they will add up. Whether you're putting them on Assault Terminators, Tartaros, Vanguard Vets, etc I see this as the main avenue of taking an elite assault unit with teeth to its attacks. -2 AP, re-rolls to wound, and if Helbrecht happens to be nearby, they are S5. 

 

Hope you don't mind the expansion/discussion here on your crusade thread brother.