ITC 1st Turn Roll-off Coming via Chapter Approved

[Alcyon]

Just saw this: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/09/new-matched-play-rules-in-chapter-approved-aug-9gw-homepage-post-1/

 

Big news for those of us hoping to use small deployments to get units into 1st turn charge range with SftS. This change makes first turn far from guaranteed, so I think the dream of a maximized 1st turn alpha strike for RG is dead.

 

Honestly this is probably a good thing as I doubt it'd be much fun to play against, but it does prompt some questions about list-building. We've been looking at it this way lately anyways but I think this really makes SftS more of a tool for shooty units and objective-holding units that lack mobility otherwise, especially with the return of Objective Secured for Troops across all armies. 

 

How are you planning to use our stratagem? And how do you plan to support your SftS units in the field, especially if you end up going second?

[SkimaskMohawk]

You place units after determining who goes fist and stealing of initiative, so units with strong midrange benefit more than pure melee

[MajorNese]

How are you planning to use our stratagem? And how do you plan to support your SftS units in the field, especially if you end up going second?

After seeing all components that need to be considered (friendly and enemy unit positions (threat range, weak points), who has first turn, objective positions,...), deploy units to fill gaps (including mid-field deep strike blockers and/or speed bumps), or exploit them. Get mid-ranged heavy weapons up the field, set up units out of LoS or in good cover, without being limited by deployment zones. In short, board control. The thing you would need SftS for, if not aiming for that straight-forward approach of an extremely short-ranged alpha strike like agressors or CC units.

[ShinyRhino]

So happy this is changing to a more strategic and cerebral usage instead of the current cheese strike it's being used for.

[duz_]

This is more or less how I've been playing since 8th dropped.

I think its a far more reasonable mechanic than auto first.

[thewarriorhunter]

I think it's a good change. I makes things a little more random and adds some extra strategy and thought.

 

Seeing this and discussion about SFTS now makes me consider SFTS my terminators rather than deep striking them in. Putting the mid field will help with their mobility issues, allow them to be behind LOS and then move into position to shoot. If you don't get turn one then your opponent has to think about what he's going to do since that's a pretty beefy unit that is potentially knocking on their front door.

[Nusquam]

I don't think the dream is dead. SFTS is a positioning stratagem first and foremost. That you can get first turn charges is a bonus, not a goal. It lets you place units in the optimum position before the first players turn. Sometimes that can head off an advance to an objective or exploit a weakened flank. Hellblasters, devs, and Aggressors can be placed in the best place for shooting. Or VV can be placed in the best place to deter an advance. It's still very good, just less exploitable.

 

Also if we ever get relic we pretty much win unless we fight Alpha Legion or get tabled.

[Damo1701]

Meh. ITC ruins so much of what was good and interesting about 40k.

 

I did notice no mention of removing flame weapons from hitting flyers yet...

 

The auto-first turn is something that speaks to the background of the marines and other elite armies...

 

Always prepared for a surgical strike, while the enemy is still either preparing or sleeping. It also means that, if you plan your drips correctly, you should be going first, not having a noisy, huge, unruly gaggle of enemies getting the drop on you... In fact, the only plausible opponents to get the drop on Marines should be Chaos Marines (Pure) and Eldar.

 

There is less and less fluff being represented on the table-top, and the interference from ITC doesn't help much either.

 

Why doesn't the ITC just design their own gaming system to use, instead of mucking about with established ones???

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Imperial Guard, Orks, and Tyranids are extremely happy.

[duz_]

Although I do attend tournaments and I wasn't the biggest fan of ITC changes last edition I wouldn't rush to criticising them so far.

They have said they want the game to be as true to the core rules as possible and it certainly seems to be the case this time around with how the FAQ's are vs previous ones.

Also it is entirely possible that the idea was given to them by GW and they were just quicker to implement it than GW could officially release an update.

I am not aware of any edition where you were guaranteed first turn, which is super powerful.
I was not a fan of that ruling and always played with this modified way, it still provides a bonus to smaller "elite" armies, but stops people from outright gaming the system.

[Alcyon]

Also if we ever get relic we pretty much win unless we fight Alpha Legion or get tabled.

Man, deploy some terminators with SftS and then teleport home them back to your deployment zone? OP pls nerf

[Damo1701]

Although I do attend tournaments and I wasn't the biggest fan of ITC changes last edition I wouldn't rush to criticising them so far.

They have said they want the game to be as true to the core rules as possible and it certainly seems to be the case this time around with how the FAQ's are vs previous ones.

Also it is entirely possible that the idea was given to them by GW and they were just quicker to implement it than GW could officially release an update.

I am not aware of any edition where you were guaranteed first turn, which is super powerful.

I was not a fan of that ruling and always played with this modified way, it still provides a bonus to smaller "elite" armies, but stops people from outright gaming the system.

You see, I thought that to begin with, when it was announced that there would be auto-first turn.

 

Then I thought about the armies that would, likely, be subject to that. All the small, elite armies that usually suffer for being small and elite.

 

Then, it actually made perfect sense. If anybody asks why I am not using the altered rules from CA, the answer is simple:

 

"If flame weapons can shoot fliers, my finishing deployment first means I get first turn."

 

Yes, I will buy the book, sucker that I am. However, unless there is a lot if balancing, it won't get used at all. I'm not facing off against 80 conscripts, that are practically immune to morale, with ObSec.

 

Sorry, but there is nothing balanced about those two scenarios... I wonder whether they were overlooked because ITC like those scenarios?

[ItsPug]

Doesnt work I'm afraid, if the Terminator unit is holding the Relic, they cannot make use of the Teleport Homer rule.

 

"A model with the Relic cannot embark in a TRANSPORT, leave the battlefield, or move further than 9" in any single phase for any reason." The Relic, pg 223, Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook

 

"At the end of the Movement phase, remove this unit and then set it up with all models within 6" of a friendly <CHAPTER> teleport homer." Teleport Homer, pg 158, Codex: Space Marines

[Alcyon]

Well, that's probably for the best, all told. ;)