New Raven Guard Player - Bitz, transfers & 'authenticity'

[Buggane]

Hi Fellas

 

With the arrival of 8th I've decided to pick up 40k again after a 15 year hiatus, and trawling through the current armies I discovered the RG. Really like the fluff, the paint job (though I think I am going to go for some blue highlights as I really like the effect) and the new CT. There is already a really good thread on here on what to collect as a new player with just the DI box, but I wondered if anyone could offer some advice on building a convincing looking RG army?

 

For me, looking at the minis posted here, and what also partially attracted me to the RG is the variation you guys get in your marines in order to make them 'RG', which goes way beyond just sticking a few beakies in here and there.  As someone completely new i just wondered where you get your bitz from? I see forge world and a few 3rd party suppliers sell the beakies, and FW also do the conversion set (for £44.....).

 

Do people just mix a few bitz from older models in with the new stuff to get the desired effect? And what is peoples opinion on whether to use transfers or the special shoulder pads, the pads look easier but seem expensive, even from shapeways....It might be that I just need to bite the bullet and spend more money (it is 40K after all) but I just wanted to check what the experts do!

 

Thanks!

 

 

[Race Bannon]

Welcome to the Ravenspire! ^_^

 

You've taken a very important step: reading. In my humble opinion, keep reading around as "the feel" comes from how people describe the Raven Guard, which is different from how they play on the table. I know that may not make much sense, but neither is a stealthy power armored giant :lol: Also, as a game, people tend to optimize the army in relation to the rules. This is not a bad thing at all, yet fictional "theme" can get lost in translation relative to the factual victory on the table.

 

As for the look, for my part, it's really in the iconography. FW has better tailored models to the army, so when you buy RG stuff, it is made for them. I use transfers as they are economically efficient but take time to get right. Buying the raised parts is certainly the reverse.

[ONDIG]

Welcome back !It sounds as if you have a good general idea on how you want your army to look(blue hi lite is tight!) and B+C has sources for inspiration but ultimately it comes down to,your personal preference .Personally I started w/a RG army I bought from a friend already painted classic Black w/ red trim which is how RG appear in most of the Books currently.A quick will search and you'll learn that squad marks pre-heresy red trim was worn by assault squads,green trim was for tactical squads and yellow used to denote devastators.Then as you'll see white Heads/Arms is typically veterans/Sgt. Or command figures.

As far as sourcing bitz for me it was hoarding beaks from where ever I could find them.The Vanguard and new tactical marine boxes have a,number of nice heads,and MKVI legs and I believe even a few torsos(triple cables on Breastplate) as far as transfers or custom pads myself I would go w/ pads more costly but easier to paint and I think you can get a sprue of 10 from eBay(Betrayal at calth?) for a reasonable price.Myself my RG don't even have proper insignia heresy I know but my paint skill is so-so and w/ the white Heads +arms allows me to pick out my" Bosses" at a glance on the table top.

Hope some of this blather is a little helpy.

VICTORUS AUT MORTEM!

[duz_]

For upgrade bits I get my Mk7 shoulder pads from Shapeways they're not too badly priced and the only way to get Mk7 pads for RG at the moment.

I also bug other gamers for their Mk6 helmets.

I did put in an order for FW beakies + Mk6 shoulder pads for my vets earlier in the year. It worked out to nearly $2+ a piece! Looks awesome, but I will probably be looking elsewhere for economic options in future.

Alternatively you could make your own transfers for RG.

 

Looking forward to seeing your army grow!

[thewarriorhunter]

I scour ebay for FW bits (be careful with chinacast) and those are really nice additions to sprinkle into the army. Shapeways makes some great shoulder bits, i'll probably be placing an order for some the next time I build infantry.

 

Anvil Industries makes some cool heads that I use for my assault squads and Sgts/captains: Head one and Head two. Kromlech also has some cool bits you could put on your minis.

 

Transfers are a weak spot for us. Unless you find something used it's FW or make your own. I wish GW would make a 40k RG sheet, the FW one is obviously bent towards 30k.

[Buggane]

Thanks everyone, that's really helpful.  I love green so i'll be going with whichever company gets green from the codex (i think its the 3rd or 4th), with blue edge highlights, if it looks good. i have box of 3 marines on the way to try some test schemes on. I like the 'non-codex' colour scheme Race mentioned, but by my OCD encourages me to do things 'proper'. A couple of questions if its alright?

 

Race - you said read, the codex is on its way though i assume it has about 2 pages on the RG, anything you would recommend? I know there a black library book about shrike? Is that a good place to start?

 

Sorry if its a silly question, but i assume that you use shapeways for the mark VII pads because the Mark VI ones forgeworld do don't fit the 'standard' marines??

 

Where do the company numbers people use on the knee pads come from, are they standard marine transfers?

 

Also, Duz, your dazzle camo on your tanks is awesome (even my wife thought so...), i hope you don't mind if i do a knock off version. I don't have the patience for your digital efforts though!

 

I better get scouring ebay...there's a few marine players at my local gaming store, space wolves and dark angels don't need beakies so maybe i can pick up some useful stuff from them.

[duz_]

Sorry if its a silly question, but i assume that you use shapeways for the mark VII pads because the Mark VI ones forgeworld do don't fit the 'standard' marines??

 

/snip

 

Also, Duz, your dazzle camo on your tanks is awesome (even my wife thought so...), i hope you don't mind if i do a knock off version. I don't have the patience for your digital efforts though!

 

The Mk6 are compatible with regular marines. However they are designed to go on the right shoulder where as RG have their chapter symbol on the left. What's the difference? The Raven head faces the opposite way, ie. Raven head should be facing forwards so if you were to put a FW Mk6 pad on the left shoulder it would be facing the wrong way. Which is why the shapeways ones are great and cheaper too. :D

 

Ha you're more than welcome! I dont claim ownership of that. In fact like all good artists I borrowed it off another Frater in the Guard forum and re-purposed for my RG. :D

Yeh that's probably a wise decision on the digicam ... there's a reason I only have about 1/2 my force fully painted and the rest is 3 colour minimum.

 

Glad we could help!

[Buggane]

One last question, in view of saving money i've found these on shapeways:

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/JW53W4PWQ/60x-raven-legion-shoulder-insignia-pack?optionId=63042506

 

they do both ways round (to avoid the problems duz mentioned). Has anyone used them? It seems to me that the problem of getting them straight might be compensated somewhat by being able to get 60 of the things for the price of 10 normal pads....

 

Otherwise thanks for the tips, I have 45 vanguard veteran heads (!) on the way for about a fiver courtesy of e-bay, there should be 15 beakies in there so it is a good start.

[Race Bannon]

:tu:

 

Actually, I should have been more clear with my advice I apologize. Read here on the B+C, literally crack open each post from the top and go back a few pages. There have been a lot ... A lot ... of talk since the codex dropped. But before that, there was great conversation about the Chapter from the previous edition that, in my mind, really strived to force players to play thematic games competitively. So the tactics and strategies were discussed with that frame of mind.

 

The Adeptus Astartes forum has several threads devoted toward specific units that can show an overall point of view (the Unit of the Week threads have been very good reads, in my opinion).

 

This is just a suggestion, you don't have to read it all, but it's a way to get some answers and even learn new questions from them ^_^

Edited August 11, 2017 by Race Bannon

[duz_]

I believe one of our fellow Frater in the ravenspire has ordered some of those.

Although I am not sure if they have received them yet. It would be in one of the recent WiP threads here.

[thewarriorhunter]

Another good place to read is the wikis, and 1d4chan (vulgar and crude, but funny if you've a sense of humor).

 

Raven Guard Wiki (The most thorough and longest, a really good read on history/lore).

 

Raven Guard Lexicanum

 

Raven Guard 1d4chan

[NiceGuyAdi]

Another economical option for insignia is to do your own transfers. There's a thread on the forum called "ye olde decal thread" (or similar, I'm on the phone at the moment and can't find it), which is helpful.

 

The only headache is getting white trabsfers done, but I've got a workaround I can link to if you're interested.

 

Welcome back as well. I had 16 years out before coming back and jumping into the Raven Guard. I found 1d4chan handy in addition to the wealth of knowledge in this sub forum, which also happens to be one of the friendliest ones on a generally very friendly site.

[Race Bannon]

Indeed, this is why I've done.  The Testers decal sheet pack and spray sealer (I shop at Hobby Town) are about $25.  Carlson793 made a transfer sheet for the Raven Guard that can be made in white and black.  The trick is in the printer, but I used a (now obsolete) Lexmark inkjet printer.

 

If you want to save money, the DIY way is the way to go.  If your patience is less than your need to save money, then Shapeways is the way to go.

 

The downside to Shapeways (in my mind), is that those items have a fixed size for PA or Terminator armor, where the decal sheet offers differing sizes that can be used for Scouts, vehicles and stylized shoulder plates where the icon could not fit or for pauldrons that would need to be removed to use the Shapeways pauldron.  Sorry for the run-on sentence.

 

You could break the bank and do both :lol:

[Buggane]

On the subject of transfers I found a how to on dakka dakka that makes it look surprisingly easy and achievable (!) So I think i'll now go down that route, 40K is expensive enough so cutting cost corners is a great idea! I think breaking the bank should be kept in reserve for justifying the purchase of stormravens to the other half....

 

If Adi has the link on white transfers I would be interested, though the other guide I read implied you just needed the right kind of paper (and a steady hand to paint round the decal), if there is more too it i'd appreciate it! If he's got any suppliers for the paper or spray it would also be helpful, as I am also in the UK

[Race Bannon]

I hear ya for cost, which is why I went the DIY route.  It takes more patience and time (relatively) yet the results can be equally rewarding ^_^

 

If you use Testors brand paper, I recommend using the white sheet since most printers can't print white.  Alternatively, you'll use the clear sheet but then the model surface needs to be painted white before the transfer is applied.  Frankly, Testors sells a combo pack (3 white/3 clear) and I really recommend testing with both because printers are different for each person; what works for me may not for you).

 

Looking forward to seeing your work :tu:

[SkimaskMohawk]

So here's the thing about Raven Guard and "authenticity". Despite an all Beakie force looking pretty cool, from a fluff standpoint it makes absolutely no sense in the time line. MkVII armour is developed off of VI, and for all intents and purposes is a straight up improvement. In 30k it makes way more sense to have a Raven Guard force with all mk VI; they were gifted two thousand artificer suits and had tested the prototypes. Ten thousand years later with mk VII being an improved version, means there's very little need or plausibility for massed produced mk VI. TLDR, using mkVII is way more authentic

[duz_]

Entirely true, however (and I'm biased as I am someone who has an entire beakie force) you could also argue that the current "Corvus" helms are actually MkVII and that the "cone" is purely cosmetic from a Chapter pride perspective.

At least that's how I justify the inclusion of mine :D

It certainly isn't the cheapest option to build a themed army though! ... 

[thewarriorhunter]

Some of the lore talks about the RG always being shorted on gear, which I don't get. Especially since the Ravensprie is on a moon that belongs to a Forge World. I figure the RG would have some of the best equipment, and not really have a shortage of it since they can get what they want.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Oh don't get me wrong, I think the all beakie look is awesome and all my stuff has beakies and studded pads, with the exception of some characters and anvil industries stuff. It's just not the most lore accurate, unless you're doing veteran / command squads who'd have access to relic armours.

 

And yea, iirc there's been some retcons going on with the equipment of the chapter. Back in 4th they had flesh over steel as a drawback and that limited their tanks and vehicles, the explanation being the dropsite devastated them to such a degree that they were always on the back foot in terms of material. Then Thorpe and the forgeworld team made kiavahr pretty much a forgeworld in terms of production, while keeping their ranks fairly depleted; flesh over steel was more of a result of raiding and surgical strikes instead of massed battle. Then Mann just took the cleaver to the lore and I don't even know what the situation is supposed to be in terms of armoury production

[Buggane]

Perhaps let's go with a beakie flavour, rather than everyone beakie. There was a army on here that was just really...varied, all sorts of marks and models mixed in together, including a few Mark IV and the crusader, which i really liked the look of, so i'll chuck some in, but am by no means going 'all beakie'.  For a start i can't afford it! But i think just having more than usual will be enough to impart the flavour I want to.

 

I just figured that they liked wearing their Corvus suits, they being named after their primarch and not having the numbers to really expand much beyond the big shipment of suits they got just after the heresey into the Mark VII stuff. I'm definately not putting beakies on the primaris, they've just pitched up with all their gear (which is better), and i figure they'd have to earn a beakie if they wanted one.

 

Goes to search for testors paper....if anyone is in the UK and knows a brand or supplier that is here let me know.

 

And i'll chuck you a picture when i've settled on a colour scheme. So far the only model i've painted for 16 years is a 90's vintage striking scorpion which was painted with rubbish brushes and airfix paint as proof to my wife that i had the patience to get back into this!

[duz_]

I agree on the Primaris guys. I had been debating on giving them. Mk6 helmets too, but decided against it. Cost and fluff were significant factors, plus I do like the new helmet design. Not go say I want be adding some flair to them. ;)

[NiceGuyAdi]

Buggane, here's how I make up 'white' transfers. It'll take longer than Race's way of using white paper, but I like it because at the stage of painting white, you can add some variation by stippling it with a bit of grey, which breaks it up a bit, and is especially handy on larger transfers.

 

I've not found Testor's paper in the UK, but have found Expert's Choice from Hobby UK really good. Bear in mind that link is for clear, though they have white paper as well. The only minor irritation is it's not quite A4 shaped.

[Race Bannon]

If I may add a note about the armor, I believe the beaky "theme" came from the Index Astartes article:

 

 

 

After the massacre on Istvaan V, the Raven Guard had to make do with older armor and equipment.  The resources were simply not available to re-equip the troops.  Even today, there is a higher percentage of ancient suits of armor in the Chapter than most others.

 

The only "older" suits for modeling back then was the MkVI style.  This, coupled with artwork that favored the MkVI within that article and perpetuated over the years is where I believe the "beaky" theme thrived.

 

One could argue that the Chapter has since gotten some modernization, Primaris aside.  Yet, with the plethora of older mark suits available to the hobbyist, if one wanted to stick to the original description above, one certainly could ^_^

[Colonel Bindoff]

The index was probably the start but the mark VI association was given huge weight in the HH series with the new marines being issued with it too. It's described as having better autosenses (in the snout I guess) and being stealthier: I'd always assumed these factors were the 'current' reason for its prevalence.

[Race Bannon]

Ahh, having not read the HH books (prepares to run for cover), then that likely sealed it ^_^