Griffin vs Wyvern

[Spear of Achilles]

Currently running a pair of Wyvern, but they are horrible now at shifting Marines in cover. Was looking at the Griffin Heavy Mortar stats:

 

Griffon Heavy Mortar 48" Heavy D6 6 -1 D3 Roll 2 dice for the number of attacks when firing this weapon and discard the lowest result. This weapon can target units not visible to the bearer. Units attacked by this weapon do not gain any bonus to their saving throws for being in cover.

 

They seem pretty good, rolling a mediocre amount of attacks but ignoring cover, having -1 AP and higher strength. Throw in a heavy stubber for the required hull mount and you're saving 20 pts to boot. Opinions on these two in comparison?

 

 

EDIT: Downside: The Griffin is considerably slower than the Wyvern.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Spear of Achilles

[duz_]

Yes the Wyvren does struggle with Sv2+ marines in cover now even with their 4D6 shots + shred.

I encountered similar frustration in a game not so long ago. I hope it gets its ignores cover back!

 

I am sure with S6 Ap-1, ignores cover it would help. Although the low volume of shots... 

Doing some rough number (so don't shoot me if I'm wrong), but 14 shots of the wyvren against marines in cover is ~0.875 wounds vs 4 shots from a Griffin with ~0.83 wounds to marines in (or out) of cover

 

So pretty close... I guess you could then argue wounds per point the Griffon wins?

I still like my wyvren though, if you have a Griffon go for it. I'm not sure I'd go and buy one before the codex drops though

[Jolemai]

Sadly there are no in production models for the Griffon which means it won't make it into the Codex.

 

FW have stopped doing theirs too :(

[Spear of Achilles]

I do indeed own one. Regardless if they make the codex, the Indexs are still legit for official play. They stopped making sabres as well, but the index has them. I don't know why they put those in the index but did not put in the Mukaali stats...

Edited August 10, 2017 by Spear of Achilles

[CoffeeGrunt]

There's quite a few things missing from the Index like that. Greater Knarlocs are another example.

 

I think the low number of shots with mediocre Guard accuracy will hurt the Griffon though. Is the Colossus Bombard any good? 

[Spear of Achilles]

Hrmmm

 

Colossus siege mortar 240" Heavy 2D6 6 -2 D3   This weapon can target units that are not visible to the bearer. Units attacked by this weapon do not gain any bonus to their saving throws for being in cover.

 

 

Armageddon pattern Medusa::

 

Standard shells 36" Heavy D6 10 -3 D3 This weapon can target units that are not visible to the

bearer.

 

The medusa is considerably cheaper (47 pts_, and it's higher AP effectively gives it the same ignores cover as the Colossus, which does much better vs infantry with more attacks, but weaker vs vehicles. The medusa also moves 12" compared to the Colossus' 8"

 

 

If immobility is not an issue, Medusa carriage (62 pts cheaper than colossus) adds this:

Breacher shells 48" Heavy D6 10 -3 D3 When attacking a BUILDING, increase this weapon’s

Damage characteristic to D6.

 

Most times I think the Medusa is overall better....it's faster, higher AP and much higher str at a cheaper cost

Edited August 13, 2017 by Spear of Achilles

[CoffeeGrunt]

Why would you be moving with it? Then it won't hit anything.

 

That said, I'm glad to hear my Medusa is still worth keeping though.

[Spear of Achilles]

You'd move it to prevent deepstrikers getting in into melee if they fail their charge the turn they land, or a fast unit like a knight has made it into viable charge range. Good example here, moving the wyvern away from blood angels https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1107764396034235&id=654447594699253

[Otto von Bludd]

I think a better question is Wyvern vs Mortar HWT.  Mortars put out so many shots for their point cost that, if you bring enough, they'll eventually force failed saves even on dug in units.  You can get, what 3-4 Mortar units for the price of a Wyvern?  9-12 D6 shots is great.