Storm Bolter Sword Brethren

[AlmightyWalrus]

What do my fellow Brothets think about running a unit of Sword Brethren with nothing but Storm Bolters? They'd have an absurd 40 shots in rapid fire range and they'd still have two attacks each and would thus fight just as well as 10 Initiates (minus the extra weapon but with one extra attack on the Sergeant so actually more special attacks for less points). A unit like this wouldn't break the bank but would be a decent horde-clearer while providing target saturation in a foot list. They'd also make for an excellent unit to ride with Helbrecht in a Crusader, as they want to shoot the same targets as the LRC and both would benefit from Helbrecht rerolls.

 

I'm probably gonna experiment with these, they look rather promising. Upgrading to Storm Bolters is much cheaper than Combi-Plasmas although they obviously lack the punch of plasma (but better BS than firing both Combi-parts).

[BrotherWallenstein]

I guess the Sword Brethren would be Company Veterans? Might as well give them chainswords, that gives one extra attack for free.

[AlmightyWalrus]

I was thinking Sternguard for the larger squad size, but Command Squad could work if you want to fill HQ slots for more detachments and for the chainsword.

[Honda]

Actually, I like both of these ideas.

[bolvar]

I think that storm bolters are only worth against T3, because you'd be wounding on 3+, or a cheap upgrade for a 5 man crusader squad's sword brother that bring a heavy weapon and camp in an objective. For T4 and above, their special issue bolter with AP -2 should be vastly superior, specially against MEQ. They also are better against vehicles because of that.

 

Not saying that you shouldn't get them in vehicles, because they don't replace any options. But I wouldn't trade special issue bolters for storm bolters

 

If you want to spam bolter fire, you should aim for hurricane bolters, or large crusader squads filled to the brim with neos

Edited August 14, 2017 by bolvar

[AlmightyWalrus]

AP-2 halves the effectiveness of 3+ armour, a Storm Bolter has twice the shots. They're literally the same on average against MEQ. Against 4+, 5+ and 6+ the Storm Bolter is better. The Special Issue Bolter is only better against 2+ saves. Edited August 14, 2017 by AlmightyWalrus

[Castellan Doren]

I considered it, but i'm not ready to take another mortgage out for three rotatable units.

 

VV full plasma deep striking.

Vv full stormbolters for cheap mass firepower.

Vv full combiflamers for everything T3.

[Kontakt]

If you plan on using the masterful marksmanship stratagem, it only applies to the special issue boltgun. Wounding T7 on a 4+ and T8 and above on a 5+ is a pretty good deal to me.

[Aegir_Einarsson]

But it only applies to sternguard, not vanguard.

[AlmightyWalrus]

Vanguard sadly do not get Storm Bolters, otherwise they'd be amazing.

[Aegir_Einarsson]

I thought about SIA not storm bolters.

[Acebaur]

Company Veterans are elites, not HQ.

 

Anyway I'd go with company vets over sternguard as there isn't a huge downside to having two units. Stick them in a pod or a raven and you have 40 shots and 30 attacks, that's a lot of dice.

[Firepower]

Bear in mind the very nasty Marksmanship strategum, which only works with the special issue boltgun.  

[BrotherWallenstein]

Kind of not on topic, but since we are discussing different kinds of Sword Brethren...

 

I have this squad of Sword Brethren, 2 Vets with Power Axe and Bolt Pistol, 2 Vets with Power Sword and Bolt Pistol, Sergeant with Lightning Claw and Plasma Pistol.

Is there any difference between running them as Company Veterans or Vanguard Veterans? I think the cost is exactly the same, but CV get the bodyguard rule and VV don't.

 

The only real difference between VV and CV is the bodyguard rule and the option for VV to take jump packs and Relic Blade for Sergeant? And the squad size?

Edited August 14, 2017 by BrotherWallenstein

[AlmightyWalrus]

Company Veterans are elites, not HQ.

 

Anyway I'd go with company vets over sternguard as there isn't a huge downside to having two units. Stick them in a pod or a raven and you have 40 shots and 30 attacks, that's a lot of dice.

 

So they are, even better then.

 

 

EDIT: The Storm Bolter outperforms the Special Issue Boltgun on anything that's not 2+ or 3+ saves and doesn't have to pay Command Points to do what it's supposed to. +1 to wound for one phase really isn't that impressive considering it's using precious command points. I'd rather have my CPs for the crucial rerolls or similar.

Edited August 14, 2017 by AlmightyWalrus

[Firepower]

I can't even think of a kit to get storm bolters sized for power armor, barring Grey Knight wrist ones.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Firepower

[CantusMaximGloria]

The Sternguard kit comes with one at least and so do devastator kits.

[KhorneHunter57x]

I'd stick them on Company Vets if you were bringing them along for the Bodyguard rule - keep 'em cheap, but make 'em killy.

[Winds Of Fury]

I can't even think of a kit to get storm bolters sized for power armor, barring Grey Knight wrist ones.

 

Sternguard x2

Devastator x1

Commander x1

 

and if I'm not all wrong there should be one in the Blood Angles Tactical Squad.

[Ciler]

Kind of not on topic, but since we are discussing different kinds of Sword Brethren...

 

I have this squad of Sword Brethren, 2 Vets with Power Axe and Bolt Pistol, 2 Vets with Power Sword and Bolt Pistol, Sergeant with Lightning Claw and Plasma Pistol.

Is there any difference between running them as Company Veterans or Vanguard Veterans? I think the cost is exactly the same, but CV get the bodyguard rule and VV don't.

 

The only real difference between VV and CV is the bodyguard rule and the option for VV to take jump packs and Relic Blade for Sergeant? And the squad size?

Since the FaQ fixed the storm shield issue, as far as I can tell they are mostly identical as you pointed, except for special rules and squad size indeed.

 

I can't even think of a kit to get storm bolters sized for power armor, barring Grey Knight wrist ones.

The space marine commander sprue (and all it's iterations) has one

[Acebaur]

I can't even think of a kit to get storm bolters sized for power armor, barring Grey Knight wrist ones.

 

Assault on Black Reach TDA is a good place to find them, usually those mini's are cheap and if you are careful you can cut it away with no damage. 

[SydonianDragoon404]

Could always just use a Grey Knight arm as well. I'm thinking about trying this idea out. 2 squads of company vets in a Rhino with storm bolters and power weapons? Sounds expensive but... ugh now I want to try it! 

[SydonianDragoon404]

I just realized, taking company veterans with storm bolters and power weapons... it's basically a Grey Knight Strike Squad without the psychic powers and force weapons. How do the points compare? My hope is that Company vets are cheaper... if not, then you may as well ally in some professional daemon hunters. Is GK being the only psykers we fully trust still a thing? Or did that go away? 

[Brother Talarian]

I just realized, taking company veterans with storm bolters and power weapons... it's basically a Grey Knight Strike Squad without the psychic powers and force weapons. How do the points compare? My hope is that Company vets are cheaper... if not, then you may as well ally in some professional daemon hunters. Is GK being the only psykers we fully trust still a thing? Or did that go away?

I did some quick math. 21 points for GK and 22 for CV.

 

GK have one less attack but have the ability to deepstrike and do D3 wounds.

 

CV have 1 extra attack and can save an HQ...

[Ciler]

A strike squad with force sword and storm bolter is 21 points per model ; has teleport strike, psyk-out grenades and the sword does D3 dmg.

A company veteran squad with power sword and storm bolter is 22 points per model ; has 2 attacks per model and the sword does 1 dmg.

 

The veterans will more reliably output ~ 6 wounds on a MEQ (for a maximum of 21), than the strike squad that might score ~3-9 (depending on the dmg rolls). The damage output is therefore comparable. Except that for 5 less points, the GK come with psycher and deep strike out of the box.