Would you find this acceptable at your gaming group/table?

[Doghouse]

It's sad that this game has gone from a "cool ideas sandbox" to "Slavishly obey the Officialness! It is all that we can allow!"

 

Officialdom has been a septic ghost that haunts this game and kills creativity in my book despite decades of GW saying the rules are guidelines and you should play it how you want. Even Jervis Johnson said the tournament mentality they fostered was a bad idea.

 

I think the game is what it is to whoever happens to be playing it at the time, whether they have agreed to play it using tournament style requirements with WYSIWYG or three colours minimum painted minis or whether they are happy to use coke can drop pods and counts as minis at the end of the day it's down to those playing the game against each other.

 

If one person refuses to play because their opponent is using ork boyz as nobs or space marine dreadnoughts as killer cans then that is their choice and there is nothing wrong with that, both players will find other opponents and they both move on. On the other hand if both agree that proxies or certain rules are omitted then there is nothing wrong with that either.

 

What the rest of the players in the hobby do is not up to any of us and no one is in any position to tell others how to play their game. If you disagree with your opponent then you end up not playing them so the argument becomes a moot point. If you don't like a tournaments rules they have set in place you don't take part. Chances are if your opponent plays the game differently in casual games you're not going to be playing in their circles anyway.

 

The official rule is there are no official rules other than the ones you put in place yourself. 

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

There sure seems to be a lot of "if you don't like my creativity you're wrong and you're the problem". Even if it's retaliatory or "in defense", that's no excuse.

[Adeptus]

I can think of a reason: he's unemployed and all his money goes on the bills and food.

 

No see, that's a reason for not buying new models.

 

It doesn't mean he has to run his plasma guns as melta guns. Why not just use the plasma as plasma?

 

That's part of the contract of the game though surely. The best thing to do I've found is ask your opponent! 

 

I don't think it is. I think the best thing to do is not ask. Because a polite opponent will always cede the point. If you want to use your plasma models for melta guns, I will always let you and I will always prefer that you didn't. It's not a big enough issue for me to jump up and down about it.

 

Instead I think the BEST thing to do is simply use your models as they're modelled. If that means you're 'locked' into a single load out well then that's just the way it is.

 

Once again, this is barring unusual circumstances like legacy loadouts, temporary trials and lost/forgotton models etc.

 

In a game that is predicated entirely on mental abstraction, what does it matter?

 

Why does it matter why it matters? 

 

I prefer that people use their models as modelled. Is that really so much to ask? Why wouldn't you want to do that?

 

Because you want to use the 'better' weapons to improve your chances of winning?

 

That's not very cool, IMO. It's like asking if you can have my last beer out of my fridge. Of course I'll say yes, but honestly I'll be a bit surprised you were presumptuous enough to ask, refusal may offend and all that jazz.

 

IMO the default position for everyone should be "I will use my models as modelled" bar, once again, exceptional circumstance. If the only reason you're using the wrong rules profile is because it's better than the weapon you have on your model, then just don't.

[Chaplain Raeven]

 

To counter a question with a question, why can't people just use the rules for the models they have?

 

Now let's leave aside the obvious answers: People who have legacy equipment that's no longer (or was never) valid, people who are trialling something new, people who are making do due to lost or forgottten models, etc. I'm not talking about those guys. I'm talking about the guy running all his plasma guns as melta guns just because he wants to.

 

Why can't he just use the rules for plasma guns? Why does he have to use them as meltas? 

 

 

I had a situation where I proxied a special for melta's. I started building my army together with 2 other friends. We were using infantry and light vehicles/bikes almost exclusively. Then one day one of them showed up with a whole armored force, and I had not a single melta in my army. Instead of flat out refusing playing him, I just asked if I could proxy my flamers as melta. He agreed and we had a fun game. It took me a while to build enough melta's for the whole army, so I had to proxy a couple of times after that too.

 

Not to mention that Grav and other weapons are hard to come by, you can't blame people for using their plasma as grav, since kits usually come with max. 2 rifles. Buying 3 boxes to equip 5 guys is excessive.

 

I've used a Razorback (I marked it) as a predator for a couple of games too. I didn't like how it played, so I bought more devastators instead. Proxy saved me money and storage. Would you force me to buy, build and paint a complete kit just to try out something new?

 

 

Edit: made quote and post shorter

[Garreck]

 

I prefer that people use their models as modelled. Is that really so much to ask? Why wouldn't you want to do that?

 

Because you want to use the 'better' weapons to improve your chances of winning?

 

That's not very cool, IMO.

For purposes of how you choose to interact with your hobby, "fair enough."

 

For purposes of discussion in an Internet forum, I don't think anyone should be forced to choose between investing more money and time for same dudes with a different plastic future doodad in their hands or running the sub-optimal plastic future doodad for the scenario.  Melta this game, plasma the next?  Coolbeans.  You paid the points and you told me what was what, and you've not modelled for advantage.

[Kobrakei]

 

That's part of the contract of the game though surely. The best thing to do I've found is ask your opponent! 

 

I don't think it is. I think the best thing to do is not ask. Because a polite opponent will always cede the point. If you want to use your plasma models for melta guns, I will always let you and I will always prefer that you didn't. It's not a big enough issue for me to jump up and down about it.

 

Instead I think the BEST thing to do is simply use your models as they're modelled. If that means you're 'locked' into a single load out well then that's just the way it is.

 

Once again, this is barring unusual circumstances like legacy loadouts, temporary trials and lost/forgotton models etc.

 

 

 

Sorry, edited this as I was missing your point. Ideally yes, people would use what they have and I completely agree, it's nice to be able to look at an army and know a plasma is a plasma etc. Realistically I don't get enough game time to be able to turn down games where people proxy, and I doubt most people proxy for advantage, more to just give something new a go or just as a one off. If they keep doing it I'd get a little ratty.

 

 

 

To add to the topic, I did think of something else. What happens if you play against an army where you don't know what the weapons look like? For example, with Dark Eldar I could tell you what a splinter rifle looks like, but after that it gets blurry as I haven't played with or against them. If you played against an army that proxied weapons that you didn't know the models for and you genuinely couldn't tell the difference model wise, would that affect your game?

[Dragonlover]

@Adeptus: so if you're broke and want to run loadouts you don't currently own, you just don't get to? Wow. I'm honestly lost for words.

 

Dragonlover

[Bryan Blaire]

To counter a question with a question, why can't people just use the rules for the models they have?

Well, I've already gone over this, but briefly again: Because I prefer the appearance of melta guns and think they fit the idea of a plasma gun better, because I don't like the appearance of lightning claws and think that two short gladius style swords fits the idea better anyway, and because I think that the idea of Orks with small Mind-over-Matter studs in their heads armed with custom built gauss weapons and commanded by a single Necron Lord is so much more interesting than just a bunch of ensoulled robot bodies.

 

To add:

- because someone thinks the standard Guardian models stink, so converted Dark Eldar bodies with Dire Avenger Shuriken Catapults to make basic Eldar Guardians

- because I like the idea of a "meltagun", but think that a "microwave emitter" concept would look more like a dish with coils, so that's what was converted

- because I built a Dreadnought during the VDR days and have a quad-rotary lascannon, and quite frankly have no reason to buy a new dual lascannon arm

 

Why can't he just use the rules for plasma guns? Why does he have to use them as meltas?

Because people don't all have the same reasons, so you'd have to ask a specific opponent. However, you are the only person that can answer for yourself "Why can't I let my opponent use his/her plasma guns as meltaguns? What is stopping me from that?"

 

There sure seems to be a lot of "if you don't like my creativity you're wrong and you're the problem". Even if it's retaliatory or "in defense", that's no excuse.

No excuse for what? I don't think anyone has asked to be excused for anything...

 

Why not just use the plasma as plasma?

You sure seem obsessed with this question, and your own comments have now made the reason clear - you operate on the assumption that everyone else proxies with their only motivation to be to be able to win. You have made it clear that you expect not to have to ask your opponent anything and your opponent should just "concede the point" to be "good" in your eyes. Here's the quote that's shows that your assumption is that your opponent is just trying to win and couldn't possibly have a different motivation:

Because you want to use the 'better' weapons to improve your chances of winning? That's not very cool, IMO. It's like asking if you can have my last beer out of my fridge. Of course I'll say yes, but honestly I'll be a bit surprised you were presumptuous enough to ask, refusal may offend and all that jazz. IMO the default position for everyone should be "I will use my models as modelled" bar, once again, exceptional circumstance. If the only reason you're using the wrong rules profile is because it's better than the weapon you have on your model, then just don't.

That is a severely uncooperative and "do it my way" attitude. It also shows that you have an inherent assumption that regardless of game situation, one weapon is automatically "better", and someone using one weapon as the other is obviously just trying to get that "better" weapon (which they'd have to pay for with points for the game anyway or you are playing in a way that it doesn't matter anyway - you can take weapon upgrades for free too).

 

To add to the topic, I did think of something else. What happens if you play against an army where you don't know what the weapons look like? For example, with Dark Eldar I could tell you what a splinter rifle looks like, but after that it gets blurry as I haven't played with or against them. If you played against an army that proxied weapons that you didn't know the models for and you genuinely couldn't tell the difference model wise, would that affect your game?

This is a fantastic questions illustration of the concept. Honestly, it can apply to Imperial tech as well, and possibly even better, because we know officially that different Forge Worlds can output the exact same equipment with different appearances. What is to say that some obscure Forge World in the galaxy doesn't produce lasguns or even bolters that don't look exactly what we would term as black powder weapons, or even plasma guns that appear that way. That idea is much more interesting and fits the setting of 40K better than "every single bolter looks exactly like one of the three versions currently produced by the GW company" (extend the same idea to all the kits GW produces).

 

At this point, this discussion has pretty much become circular, so since the "only use models as officially produced by GW and only if you buy every single piece to use exactly as you want" argument doesn't sway me in the slightest, and it is clear that I have been absolutely unable to convince others that there are perfectly valid reasons for not using official models in official ways and that having some creativity and originality, or simply not liking GW's interpretation/depiction of things, isn't immediately bad/deceptive/being a jerk, I'll be seeing my way out of the circle and continuing to game with folks that are of more like mind with me.

 

I hope that everyone here can continue to game in ways that make them happy and actually enjoy the game. I know that's my goal over the next year and a half.

[Servant of Dante]

A personal n might want tonproxy different loadouts simply because they want some variety. Maybe they've been playing their weapons as they are for a while, but want to try out something different, just for something different.

 

Obviously it's up to each person what they find acceptable. Personally, I don't think it's rude to ask someone if you can use proxies. If it *really* bothers you then you can tell your opponent it bothers you, since that's exactly why they're asking.

 

On the other hand, a lot of the people I play with just take low level proxies for granted, you just tell your opponent what's what before the game starts and get playing.

[Slave to Darkness]

I guess I'm just not that elitist when it comes to a table top, for those of a certain vintage that something like this wouldn't have been out of place at a game club

 

all we had was coloured counters for units when I started

 

sans burning tanks in the back ground, of course

 

epic props to these guys, when all you have is a dipstick and coloured rocks, but still have to purge the xenos...

Damn. Back when Pepsi tasted great!

[Slave to Darkness]

So if/when GW release a Great Unclean One the same size as new plastic Greater Daemons, would my classic RoC mini be classed as cheating as its smaller than a Terminator and can literally hide behind a Rhino/single wall section of a GW building?

[Slave to Darkness]

 

 

 or whether they are happy to use coke can drop pods  

Coke?? BEER you mean, were menly men here. Now Im off to look at toy soldiers and be manly with my manly beard whilst I look at...TOY...

SOLDIERS...

[Doctor Doom]

To add to the topic, I did think of something else. What happens if you play against an army where you don't know what the weapons look like? For example, with Dark Eldar I could tell you what a splinter rifle looks like, but after that it gets blurry as I haven't played with or against them. If you played against an army that proxied weapons that you didn't know the models for and you genuinely couldn't tell the difference model wise, would that affect your game?

 

This echoes my situation. My horse hasn't been in the race as long as some of your other tabletop generals', but I have no idea what my army will be facing. Everyone who has played knows what they're doing and what to expect. I do not.  

 

At this point, this discussion has pretty much become circular, so since the "only use models as officially produced by GW and only if you buy every single piece to use exactly as you want" argument doesn't sway me in the slightest, and it is clear that I have been absolutely unable to convince others that there are perfectly valid reasons for not using official models in official ways and that having some creativity and originality, or simply not liking GW's interpretation/depiction of things, I'll be seeing my way out of the circle and continuing to game with folks that are of more like mind with me.

I hope that everyone here can continue to game in ways that make them happy and actually enjoy the game. I know that's my goal over the next year and a half.

 

Some friends convinced me to play, so I've purchased a few models, watched a few games at our FLGS, and noticed a few things. People who know how to play have little patience with those who do not. The majority seem to be bothered when a less knowledgeable person asks questions because "it slows down the game". These include questions about what different armies can do and what weapons are being used, "well, this does this yadda yadda" usually rattled off like an auctioneer. Some people seem to be defensive when asked about their army lists, like I'm trying to "get a leg up" on them. Some of us are simply trying to learn. 

 

When it comes to building the models, yes I would like them to be armed effectively. As a new player, the knowledge of that will develop as I play. I wouldn't have a problem with other players "proxying", as I may wish to do so myself at some point. I wouldn't mind people kitbashing models because they have what they feel as an interesting vision for their own army. I think some veteran players lose sight of this, or maybe they feel that no one was patient with them so it's the other fella's job to figure things out. Who knows? It is a wargame, so I can understand the competitiveness. One thing I've done is to buy the Indexes and started learning a bit about other armies. I've made some notes just browsing many of the threads here at the B&C.  

[Schlitzaf]

Because I prefer the appearance of melta guns and think they fit the idea of a plasma gun better, because I don't like the appearance of lightning claws and think that two short gladius style swords fits the idea better anyway, and because I think that the idea of Orks with small Mind-over-Matter studs in their heads armed with custom built gauss weapons and commanded by a single Necron Lord is so much more interesting than just a bunch of ensoulled robot bodies.

 

To add:

- because someone thinks the standard Guardian models stink, so converted Dark Eldar bodies with Dire Avenger Shuriken Catapults

- because I like the idea of a "meltagun", but think that a "microwave emitter" concept would look more like a dish with coils, so that's what was converted

- because I built a Dreadnought during the VDR days and have a quad-rotary lascannon, and quite frankly have no reason to buy a new dual lascannon arm

 

At this point, this discussion has pretty much become circular, so since the "only use models as officially produced by GW and only if you buy every single piece to use exactly as you want" argument doesn't sway me in the slightest, and it is clear that I have been absolutely unable to convince others that there are perfectly valid reasons for not using official models in official ways and that having some creativity and originality, or simply not liking GW's interpretation/depiction of things, I'll be seeing my way out of the circle and continuing to game with folks that are of more like mind with me.

 

I hope that everyone here can continue to game in ways that make them happy and actually enjoy the game. I know that's my goal over the next year and a half.

Pot calling the Kettle Black much? What makes your desires more important than your opponent? Furthermore no one is arguing for the bold. Except for Ishagu, whom is a) Tournament Player, and that IS an expectation a tournament level play.

 

Or is someone like Adeptus who is arguing or proposing he is annoyed at those who change their loadouts to fit the FoTM. And two "I am gonna use Falchion for Claws or Gaurdian Shurikan Catapults for DE Splinter Rifles." The point here is consistency.

 

And if you do the Falchion, and ADDITIONALLY USE GKT Models and proxy said GKT for C:SM Assault Terminators. You better not be including actual GKT with FALCHION's. If you think Falchions make better Lighting Claws than Lighting Claws, all the majority is saying and those whom you claim are saying "Only GW Models" is be consistent.

 

Furthermore if you convert up a new Meltagun because you don't like GW Meltagun. Fine. As long as I can tell. And you don't use the same model for different special weapon. You are not finding takers because you are arguing against a non-existent straw man.

 

If anything you are the one most coming off as an elitist, Grey beard, "back in my day I use Soda Cans for Drop Pods" (I frankly used Large Blast Templates). Instead of reading, you see "No Proxies" and go off on a tirade. Without seeing context.

 

Taking Ishagu, let us say he just finished the 4th round 8 hour tournament. He is tired, exhausted and otherwise. He goes down to the local LGS for a nice casual game. And suddenly his opponent is an army of "Special X is Special Y." Or "Pow Weapon 1 is actually Pow Weapon 2." How do you think he'll feel?

 

He'll be annoyed, because he is mentally drained, tired and properly wants to game to relax and destress. Except now has to remember what weapon is X is Y. Perhaps that same player is using an army of colored to be BA, BT and White Scars. But he is using the UltraMarine tactics.

 

Suddenly it's turn 5, because he is tired he forgot X was actually weapon Y. (Let us say Y is Meltagun. And X is Flamer). He moves his VenDread with 5 wounds to clear the objective. Charges. Overwatch Meltagun hits rolls a 6 to hit. Wounds. Then rolls 6 for damage.

 

Ishagu rolls passes his FNP save. The proxied Meltagun kills his Ven Dread. How do you think he'll feel?

 

If that opponent says "well I cannot afford to get models with Y", do you think it'll matter? He'll still be angry. Perhaps not at his opponent in particular but himself. It need not even be a tournament, just a guy who had a very long day at work. Do you think that is fair?

[Bryan Blaire]

And if you do the Falchion, and ADDITIONALLY USE GKT Models and proxy said GKT for C:SM Assault Terminators. You better not be including actual GKT with FALCHION's. If you think Falchions make better Lighting Claws than Lighting Claws, all the majority is saying and those whom you claim are saying "Only GW Models" is be consistent.

Okay, since that was such a big quote and response filled with assumption, I'll respond to this part. This quote shows a frame of reference so limited to what GW produces, that it literally didn't take into account that someone may have made short sword blades from anything other than a GW product and then tried to dictate a game occurrence based on that assumption. That's a pretty serious narrowly limited assumption.

 

Like I said, circular argument boiling down to "I like official" (with an apparent off-shoot of "do what I say and don't think you'll get to game in a way I don't dictate) and "I like the ability to do almost anything model-wise and assume that we'll discuss if we can game", with a bunch of people saying "situational".

[Brother Captain Sirus]

 

To add to the topic, I did think of something else. What happens if you play against an army where you don't know what the weapons look like? For example, with Dark Eldar I could tell you what a splinter rifle looks like, but after that it gets blurry as I haven't played with or against them. If you played against an army that proxied weapons that you didn't know the models for and you genuinely couldn't tell the difference model wise, would that affect your game?

 

 

This echoes my situation. My horse hasn't been in the race as long as some of your other tabletop generals', but I have no idea what my army will be facing. Everyone who has played knows what they're doing and what to expect. I do not.  

 

At this point, this discussion has pretty much become circular, so since the "only use models as officially produced by GW and only if you buy every single piece to use exactly as you want" argument doesn't sway me in the slightest, and it is clear that I have been absolutely unable to convince others that there are perfectly valid reasons for not using official models in official ways and that having some creativity and originality, or simply not liking GW's interpretation/depiction of things, I'll be seeing my way out of the circle and continuing to game with folks that are of more like mind with me.

 

I hope that everyone here can continue to game in ways that make them happy and actually enjoy the game. I know that's my goal over the next year and a half.

 

 

Some friends convinced me to play, so I've purchased a few models, watched a few games at our FLGS, and noticed a few things. People who know how to play have little patience with those who do not. The majority seem to be bothered when a less knowledgeable person asks questions because "it slows down the game". These include questions about what different armies can do and what weapons are being used, "well, this does this yadda yadda" usually rattled off like an auctioneer. Some people seem to be defensive when asked about their army lists, like I'm trying to "get a leg up" on them. Some of us are simply trying to learn. 

When it comes to building the models, yes I would like them to be armed effectively. As a new player, the knowledge of that will develop as I play. I wouldn't have a problem with other players "proxying", as I may wish to do so myself at some point. I wouldn't mind people kitbashing models because they have what they feel as an interesting vision for their own army. I think some veteran players lose sight of this, or maybe they feel that no one was patient with them so it's the other fella's job to figure things out. Who knows? It is a wargame, so I can understand the competitiveness. One thing I've done is to buy the Indexes and started learning a bit about other armies. I've made some notes just browsing many of the threads here at the B&C.

Unfortunately some veterans arent inclined to teaching the game to new players, but there can be multiple reasons, if they have limited play time, say once a week at their lgs, they may have had a tiring day at work and just want to relax while playing.

 

Other veterans like to teach the game, personally i'm happy to teach as long as the player is paying attention, yes sometimes people forget and ask the same question, that is fine but there have been cases where the new player spends more time talking about a random subject in the 40k universe rather than taking their turn, and when you only have limited time it can be draining, but thats by the by and isnt to common. Also starting small is key when new to the hobby and makes the learning experience between both veteran and beginner far more enjoyable.

[Schlitzaf]

 

And if you do the Falchion, and ADDITIONALLY USE GKT Models and proxy said GKT for C:SM Assault Terminators. You better not be including actual GKT with FALCHION's. If you think Falchions make better Lighting Claws than Lighting Claws, all the majority is saying and those whom you claim are saying "Only GW Models" is be consistent.

Okay, since that was such a big quote and response filled with assumption, I'll respond to this part. This quote shows a frame of reference so limited to what GW produces, that it literally didn't take into account that someone may have made short sword blades from anything other than a GW product. That's a pretty serious and limiting assumption and holding it by itself invalidates any further need for response.

 

Like I said, circular argument boiling down to "I like official" and "I like the ability to do almost anything" model-wise.

....

.......

You literally missed the entire point.

I don't even. Perhaps you would rather if I said it like this "D&D Tiamat Dragon is a Helldrake but this exactly the same no difference visual difference or way to cue otherwise D&D Tiamat Dragon is a Valkayrie."

 

Happy now? Or perhaps let me spell it out for you. I'll proxy a sentence so you can understand the point.

A is T

A is H

 

Waaa is aais aaat I aad wroae aere?

 

"What is this that I had wrote here?"

It's confusing isn't it? Well so would be using the exact same model for two different units. Or in an extreme case using those same models as an the thing they actually are in addition to any proxies.

[Blindhamster]

Personally, I'd close this.

[Chaplain Raeven]

Agreed, this thread could use the needed proxied melta.

[KBA]

How do you work the ignore feature again?

[Slave to Darkness]

Aye, kill it with fire please. 

How do you work the ignore feature again?

Clench fist, extend arm through screen I think. 

[Claws and Effect]

Am I the only one visualising a shouting match with a gaming table in the middle?

[Slave to Darkness]

Am I the only one visualising a shouting match with a gaming table in the middle?

Here in England we do things proper!!

[Claws and Effect]

Does the Ministry of Silly Walks fall under the Ecclesiarchy's jurisdiction?

[Adeptus]

@Adeptus: so if you're broke and want to run loadouts you don't currently own, you just don't get to? Wow. I'm honestly lost for words.

 

Dragonlover

Yes. Like, resoundingly, I'm-surprised-anyone-would-even-need-to-ask yes! You play the build you have. Want to try something new, sure. Forgot your HQ so this other model is standing in, I'll deal. Got a wierd legacy piece of wargear that isn't covered by the rules, what else could you do but count it as something else? But running chainaxe and chainsword, instead of the chainaxe and bolt pistol your models are carrying, just because you like the rules for the chainaxe and chainsword better is a no no.

 

I'm honestly surprised that some people don't agree.

 

As for off-the-wall stuff like someone thinking that the plasmagun rules better suit the meltagun models, I mean, we're really getting into niche territory here. I've literally never encountered someone who thought that since I started playing this game in 1994. And if they did? I'd prefer they just use whatever rules profile goes with the models they have. If you like the look of plasma guns, then use the rules for plasma guns. If you like the look of two power swords as opposed to two lightning claws, then use the rules for power swords. I really don't know what to do about a necron/ork crossover thing, but I'd be inclined to say just run them as orks with a counts-as necron overlord, but again that's getting way out there. That's not a problem people are going to be facing on a regular basis at most clubs or FLGS.

 

Much more common is the "I only have a missile launcher and I really want a lascannon" or "My Grey Knight Halberds suck know, so I want to count them all as Falchions".

 

And the only reason people are doing this is because the better rules give them a better chance of winning. And by the time they think it's OK to ask if they can count their B grade models as the A grade version, they've already decided that improving their enjoyment of the game is more important than improving mine. It's like someone wearing their shoes into my house. I'm not going to make you feel like an :cuss by asking you to take them off, but I wish you'd been courteous enough to just do it without being asked. I shouldn't HAVE to tell you not to use proxies or counts-as. You should just not do it, without being asked.

 

Now, I put this disclaimer in practically every post I make on this subject because every time, someone jumps the gun and says "But what about X or Y?". Exceptional circumstances require exceptions. Forgotten or misplaced models, trialling new load outs, dealing with legacy wargear, and if you're that one guy who wants necron-orks then those are exceptions and in those cases it's ok to ask. If you're only doing it because you want to use wargear or units that you consider better than the ones you have modelled, then no. Don't even ask. Just don't do it.