Warpsmirh utility

[Vorenus]

Can a Warpsmith use Master of Mechanisms while embarked on a vehicle? This may be a dumb question, I searched but couldn't find the answer.

[Commander Dawnstar]

The rules for transports in the Core Rules state under the Embark section that models embarked on a transport can't do anything while embarked, or affect other models with any aura abilities, unless their rules explicitly state that they can. If Master of Mechanisms says nothing about being usable while embarked on a transport then it can't be used while embarked.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Commander Dawnstar

[Vorenus]

Thanks. That is unfortunate. That really hurts their utility, especially since I don't think they can take a bike.

[Warsmith Uveron]

Thanks. That is unfortunate. That really hurts their utility, especially since I don't think they can take a bike.

 

Very Few things can take Bikes Now... Still works fine on the gunline

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Gunline, supporting walkers, marching behind a shooty tank while being coincidentally hidden from snipers....

 

There's a lot of ways you can use their ability. Forgefiends and Defilers are both great companions.

 

Also, note that their main weapons are Assault, so they can advance and still shoot....and you wouldn't be able to fire the Pistol at the same time anyway (PROTIP: always replace it with a non-pistol ranged weapon, preferably a Combi-Melta or Combi-Flamer for synergy).

[TheAlephNull]

I stack a Warpsmith behind a Sicaran Venator in cover. Add a cheap Contemptor to ward of those who would assault.  It's a beautiful thing. 

Edited August 16, 2017 by TheAlephNull

[Sception]

if you want to fix a transport just get out after it moves and fix it?  After it moves once, most transports have done their job, anyway.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

A further note on Warpsmith utility and something I mentioned in the IW thread....

 

Slaanesh Warpsmith can get tremendous output via Endless Cacophony.

 

Armed with a Combi-Melta and his usual gear (95pts for full loadout) you can get the following at close range:

 

End of Movement = Curse a vehicle for 1 Mortal Wound on 2+ (18 in)

 

1st shooting opportunity

Melta (full BS of 2+)

Melta (-1BS hitting on 3+)

2 x Bolter (-1BS hitting on 3+) or 1x Daemon Shell at -1BS (hitting on 3+) if you want to put an exclamation point on it (I'd recommend having Prescience nearby if you go this route)

Flamer (Auto Hit)

 

2nd shooting opportunity after you spend 2 command points for EC.

 

Melta (full BS of 2+)

Melta (-1BS hitting on 3+)

2 x Bolter (-1BS hitting on 3+) or 1x Daemon Shell at -1BS (hitting on 3+) if you want to put an exclamation point on it (I'd recommend having Prescience nearby if you go this route). NOTE: Can only do Daemon Shell once out of the two opportunities.

Flamer (Auto Hit)

 

Close Combat:

3 Axe attacks at WS 3+

2 Mechatendril Attacks at WS 3+

 

That's some strong output for a 95pt character.

 

If you want to butcher infantry instead and have no BS degradation, you can go with the Combi-Bolter for only 2pts and fire a total of 8 bolter shots during the above (or 4 plus Daemon Shell). I'd personally avoid the Combi-Flamer unless you put a premium on strong overwatch, which may be valid in your meta. 4 extra Bolter Shots hitting on 2+ seems to outweigh the more pricey Flamer profile to me.

[Apostle of the 30th Host]

A further note on Warpsmith utility and something I mentioned in the IW thread....

 

Slaanesh Warpsmith can get tremendous output via Endless Cacophony.

 

Armed with a Combi-Melta and his usual gear (95pts for full loadout) you can get the following at close range:

 

End of Movement = Curse a vehicle for 1 Mortal Wound on 2+ (18 in)

 

1st shooting opportunity

Melta (full BS of 2+)

Melta (-1BS hitting on 3+)

2 x Bolter (-1BS hitting on 3+) or 1x Daemon Shell at -1BS (hitting on 3+) if you want to put an exclamation point on it (I'd recommend having Prescience nearby if you go this route)

Flamer (Auto Hit)

 

2nd shooting opportunity after you spend 2 command points for EC.

 

Melta (full BS of 2+)

Melta (-1BS hitting on 3+)

2 x Bolter (-1BS hitting on 3+) or 1x Daemon Shell at -1BS (hitting on 3+) if you want to put an exclamation point on it (I'd recommend having Prescience nearby if you go this route). NOTE: Can only do Daemon Shell once out of the two opportunities.

Flamer (Auto Hit)

 

Close Combat:

3 Axe attacks at WS 3+

2 Mechatendril Attacks at WS 3+

 

That's some strong output for a 95pt character.

 

If you want to butcher infantry instead and have no BS degradation, you can go with the Combi-Bolter for only 2pts and fire a total of 8 bolter shots during the above (or 4 plus Daemon Shell). I'd personally avoid the Combi-Flamer unless you put a premium on strong overwatch, which may be valid in your meta. 4 extra Bolter Shots hitting on 2+ seems to outweigh the more pricey Flamer profile to me.

Sorry to shoot you down and all, I can see how it could be a good idea, especially if there is a vehicle nearby - the problem is though, Command Points are perhaps a little too rare to 'waste' (in my opinion) on single Characters.

 

If you're going to use it, it would be better off with a larger squad for higher output.

For example, 10 CSM can carry 7 Boltguns, 2 Meltaguns and a Combi-Melta.

At 12", that's:

36 Boltgun shots.

6 Meltagun shots.

Yeah, the BS is a little worse, but Prescience will have you hitting on 2's and 3's too (instead of 3's and 4's).

Alternatively, 6 Chosen with 5 Plasma Guns and a Combi-Plasma can get 24 Plasma shots off at 12".

Or, if you use it on Havocs, you double your chance to hit with high value weapons like Lascannons, or double your output with Autocannons and Heavy Bolters.

 

My point is, in most games, I would imagine the average is about 6 CPs. So if you're going that route, you're probably better off putting it on the biggest unit possible (or at least something with high damage output - Chosen/Havocs/Terminators with Combi-Weapons - to really maximise doubling up, and take care of a priority target) rather than on a single model.

Admittedly, that single model can do a decent amount of special weapon damage - so if he gets close to a vehicle or character he will probably kill it. But, for 1/3 of average CPs, there are probably more efficient uses for your points. Especially as Meltas are single shot with high damage - it's most effective on high wound/low numbers units which your opponent shouldn't be getting near you.

 

Good idea though, I would be curious how it does work. Have you tested it? How did it work out?

[shandwen]

The warpsmith is a great threat to achieve that lavel of damage. You don't need to activate the double shots as long as you can force the enemy to react to the appearance of such a threat.

[Panzer]

It's nice to have that option at hand but usually there should be a better unit to use that Stratagem on so you shouldn't take the Warpsmith and aim to use it on him. Take him for whatever else reason and just keep in mind that you could do it when needed. 

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

It's nice to have that option at hand but usually there should be a better unit to use that Stratagem on so you shouldn't take the Warpsmith and aim to use it on him. Take him for whatever else reason and just keep in mind that you could do it when needed. 

Exactly what I did. Didn't go in banking on it, but it was there when I needed it. My Havocs were dead and my Oblits and Terminators were still in orbit. Everything else had shooting output that was too low.

 

Also, my army was 2 Battalions and a Spearhead, so I had 9 Command Points after purchasing my 2nd Relic.

 

IW tend to find large command point totals easy to achieve since they can lean a lot on large numbers of reliable Cultists and even basic CSM from time to time, so not that big of an issue for me.

 

I've got a couple of IW lists at 2k that are Brigades.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

A further note on Warpsmith utility and something I mentioned in the IW thread....

 

Slaanesh Warpsmith can get tremendous output via Endless Cacophony.

 

Armed with a Combi-Melta and his usual gear (95pts for full loadout) you can get the following at close range:

 

End of Movement = Curse a vehicle for 1 Mortal Wound on 2+ (18 in)

 

1st shooting opportunity

Melta (full BS of 2+)

Melta (-1BS hitting on 3+)

2 x Bolter (-1BS hitting on 3+) or 1x Daemon Shell at -1BS (hitting on 3+) if you want to put an exclamation point on it (I'd recommend having Prescience nearby if you go this route)

Flamer (Auto Hit)

 

2nd shooting opportunity after you spend 2 command points for EC.

 

Melta (full BS of 2+)

Melta (-1BS hitting on 3+)

2 x Bolter (-1BS hitting on 3+) or 1x Daemon Shell at -1BS (hitting on 3+) if you want to put an exclamation point on it (I'd recommend having Prescience nearby if you go this route). NOTE: Can only do Daemon Shell once out of the two opportunities.

Flamer (Auto Hit)

 

Close Combat:

3 Axe attacks at WS 3+

2 Mechatendril Attacks at WS 3+

 

That's some strong output for a 95pt character.

 

If you want to butcher infantry instead and have no BS degradation, you can go with the Combi-Bolter for only 2pts and fire a total of 8 bolter shots during the above (or 4 plus Daemon Shell). I'd personally avoid the Combi-Flamer unless you put a premium on strong overwatch, which may be valid in your meta. 4 extra Bolter Shots hitting on 2+ seems to outweigh the more pricey Flamer profile to me.

Sorry to shoot you down and all, I can see how it could be a good idea, especially if there is a vehicle nearby - the problem is though, Command Points are perhaps a little too rare to 'waste' (in my opinion) on single Characters.

 

If you're going to use it, it would be better off with a larger squad for higher output.

For example, 10 CSM can carry 7 Boltguns, 2 Meltaguns and a Combi-Melta.

At 12", that's:

36 Boltgun shots.

6 Meltagun shots.

Yeah, the BS is a little worse, but Prescience will have you hitting on 2's and 3's too (instead of 3's and 4's).

Alternatively, 6 Chosen with 5 Plasma Guns and a Combi-Plasma can get 24 Plasma shots off at 12".

Or, if you use it on Havocs, you double your chance to hit with high value weapons like Lascannons, or double your output with Autocannons and Heavy Bolters.

 

My point is, in most games, I would imagine the average is about 6 CPs. So if you're going that route, you're probably better off putting it on the biggest unit possible (or at least something with high damage output - Chosen/Havocs/Terminators with Combi-Weapons - to really maximise doubling up, and take care of a priority target) rather than on a single model.

Admittedly, that single model can do a decent amount of special weapon damage - so if he gets close to a vehicle or character he will probably kill it. But, for 1/3 of average CPs, there are probably more efficient uses for your points. Especially as Meltas are single shot with high damage - it's most effective on high wound/low numbers units which your opponent shouldn't be getting near you.

 

Good idea though, I would be curious how it does work. Have you tested it? How did it work out?

 

I tested it a few days ago, actually. The Warpsmith, by himself, took out 7 Bloodletters and 3 Khorne Bikers during shooting. Then charged and should have got at least one more biker, but I rolled awful and he died to a Power Fist. He was also recognized as a threat immediately and before he got into the action, he had bikers detouring around him on 1st turn to avoid him. They had to because they couldn't shoot him (Cultists in front) and didn't want to charge around them to hit him because they had taken casualties and didn't want to chance 2 Meltaguns plus a Flamer on Overwatch with supporting Possessed only a few inches away to counter-charge them.

 

Like many characters in my IW army, this is a countercharge unit that makes the enemy pay for breaking your lines. I usually field him alongside a Fleshmetal Daemon Prince, a Murder Sword Sorcerer, and a unit of Possessed. At the time I used him for this particular task, my Havocs were all dead and my Terminators and Obliterators were still off board. If the Obliterators had been brought in, they would totally have gotten Endless Cacophony instead.

Edited August 17, 2017 by GreaterChickenofTzeentch

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

The warpsmith is a great threat to achieve that lavel of damage. You don't need to activate the double shots as long as you can force the enemy to react to the appearance of such a threat.

Actually happened in the game I used him in. Khorne bikers detoured around him becuase there were Cultists in front of him and double shooting, plus his charge was something they did NOT want to face after they broke through the Cultists. Didn't want to move around Cultists and charge him either because the Daemon Prince and Possessed were both close enough that he'd be rerolling 1's on Overwatch for 2 Meltaguns, plus throwing in a Flamer, setting up a supporting counter charge from those 2 units.

Edited August 17, 2017 by GreaterChickenofTzeentch