What are your expectations from your opponent in a 40K game?

[Dragonlover]

Rather than truly derailing another thread, I thought I'd start a new one, because this sort of thing fascinates me. Just what exactly *are* your expectations when you play a game of 40K? Mine are as follows:

 

Has the relevant Codex/Index they need to play

Has the core rules

Has written an army list that's understandable

Any proxies are obvious and consistent

 

That's kind of it for me, and I've broken all of them at least once.

 

Dragonlover

[RainbowWarrior]

That we'll both try to have fun.

[Joe]

Don't touch my stuff without asking and there will be no eye contact before, during or after.

[Xenith]

Don't be a dick. If you try to powergame in a pick up game with me, I'll powergame you right back.

 

Be friendly.

 

A grasp of the rules is minimum. Knowing all the rules is best, but not critical.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Xenith

[Marshal Loss]

Don't be a git.

 

That's it, nothing else matters, literally everything else can be overcome if you're playing against a nice person who is simply good fun to roll dice with

[sockwithaticket]

^

DBAD is the golden rule of life. 

[m0nolith]

Don't be a git.

 

That's it, nothing else matters, literally everything else can be overcome if you're playing against a nice person who is simply good fun to roll dice with

This is it.

It's a game of toy soldiers, nothing more.

Please keep the asshattery to a minimum.

[Decimus Felix]

I don't expect anything I think is unreasonable.

•Relevant rules, format is irrelevant.

•Consistency with proxies or counts as.

•No conversions that make a model better (smaller profile for example.)

•Either a written army list, or an explanation of what does what.

•Don't take it too seriously, it's only a game.

 

I couldn't care less if your army is painted or not, what percentage is 3rd party, whether you want to talk to your models, take pictures, stop for a smoke break or whatever. Just bring your stuff, make it easy for me to see what's what and let's just kill a few hours.

[WarriorFish]

I'd say these can be neatly covered under sportsmanship. You could even make the argument that hygiene comes under good sportsmanship too. Which is incidentally on my list

 

As the saying goes; in time nobody will remember who won - but they'll remember who was a dick

[Rik Lightstar]

I think this is also a question of the format for the game.

 

Tournament expectations are noticeably higher.

 

Then any sort of competitive league.

 

For pick up games I'm pretty laid back, as long as you have a list, the relevant rules and the models look like what they should be.

 

Mainly, I want a fun game and the things I've listed just remove obstacles to that.

 

Rik

[Ishagu]

-No modelling for advantage - EG: A daemon prince with tiny wings that's easier to hide

-No proxies for power gaming - I consider weapons on models being run as something else as proxies for advantage (eg: in 7th edition running Plasma Cannons as Grav Cannons)

-No crappy counts as - green army men as Pox Walkers. Hell No! Cardboard cutout as Stormsurge. Hell No! Forgeworld Resin Guilliman with a flaming sword to represent the 40k version - Perfectly ok!

-Unpainted is ok , as long as a player is making an effort to get is army painted. Some forces are perpetually never finished. If I see no progress after a month its's a No.

-Friendly, social playing is a no brainer.

-Have your rules with you

 

 

Everyone who points out they don't want to play against power gamers, unfriendly people etc. have to realise that anyone who's running a bunch of bolt pistols as plasma pistols is exactly that - a power gamer, and a stingy one at that.

During 7th I spend a LOT of cash on getting all the Grav Cannons, etc for my Ultras. I'm not allowing someone else to insult me and others by saying his heavy flamers are las cannons etc.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Ishagu

[Slave to Darkness]

Well I dont see the point in tourny games so I cant say what I would expect there. But normally I would expect a written armylist, Black Metal on the stereo and some beers in the fridge.

 

I come from a 1st ed background so proxies, counters, card cutouts, deodorant stick conversions, cardboard rhinos and all that stuff are fine by me as long as its not every game.

 

Opponents making an effort to paint their minis would be nice as well but isnt gonna ruin the game for me.

 

Basically DBAD.

[Tonius]

DBAD is a good rule, as it was said we're adults playing with Toy soldiers.

I prefer to play against painted armies, mine always are.

No power gaming if not in a tournament.

 

We mostly remember games for the good mood around the table, it's a social game :)

Edited August 16, 2017 by Tonius

[Adeptus]

It's nice to have neat little phrases like 'be excellent to one another' or whatever. But the problem is that everyone sort of has their own idea of what 'excellent' means. Like the phrase 'Fly Casual' in X Wing. It's such a hotly contested phrase and it just started out as a literal "don't take it all so seriously" phrase.

 

On a personal level, there are two scales of things for me. Things that are deal breakers, and things that I don't like but I'll tolerate for the sake of getting a game in.

 

Deal breakers are:

 

Cheating.

 

Terrible hygiene.

 

Rudeness.

 

I will not play a person again if I experience any of these things and depending on the severity, I will terminate a game mid-way.

 

Things I dislike, but tolerate:

 

Consistent counts-as for gaming advantage. I don't mind if you're trying something new to see how it goes, or proxying something for one-off as funsies, but if you're consistently just counting one thing as another thing because you like the rules for that other thing better, then that's going to grind my gears.

 

Perpetually unpainted models. I don't mind a WIP but if you're never putting in any effort at all? Come on.

 

Scrawled lists/mistakes in rosters. Not everyone is computer savvy, not everyone has neat handwriting, and sometimes we have to quickly sketch out a list on the back of a napkin. But try not to make a habit of it, yeah? At least try and be a bit prepared.

 

No meeting of the minds. If I want to play a fun, narrative game and you're bringing your toughest tournament list, we're not going to have a good game. And vice versa. This is incumbent on BOTH players, especially if you're playing relative strangers at a store.

[rendingon1+]

Definitely no roleplaying "Vile Xeno! Prepre to die! in the Emperor's name!" (orother faction specific yelling)  and no "sound effects" like BOOM, WAAGH, CHAAARGE, FOR THE EMPEROR etc. Also no personal life anecdotes from people I see from the first time, no chats on the phone while playing with me, no smelly food, no swear words...

[gideon stargreave]

Someone who agrees with the concept that if in doubt the rule is always in the opposing players favour,
someone who doesn't really care about the result

someone who paints and converts their army

someone who wants to use terrain

someone who would rather not play a game in GW

someone who would rather play necromunda

someone I already know

someone who thinks about campaign lore

someone who has lore for their army

someone old enough to get drunk on their poison of choice

[Slave to Darkness]

  

someone who paints and converts their army

someone who wants to use terrain

someone who would rather not play a game in GW

someone who would rather play necromunda

someone old enough to get drunk on their poison of choice

With just those 5 you seem like the perfect gamer/opponent 

[gideon stargreave]

Thank you!
The last one often means that noone knows who won anyway. Sort of like real war I suppose

[Olis]

I think I'm a subscriber to the DBAD rule. Pretty standard, really. As for other things, well, I expect them to have most of what they need. Proxies, so long as they are easy to follow and are models of at least some description, get a pass. Not especially keen on someone else using my dice, though. Too many people have sticky fingers... <_<

[Brother Casman]

I'm definitely on the side of DBAD. I'm also a fan of paying attention to the context in which I'm playing the game - tournaments have different expectations from campaigns, which have different expectations from one-off pick-up games.

 

A few personal idiosyncrasies:

- don't suggest things for me to do. You're not me, I'm not you. If you have questions about how I played, ask me after the game.

- don't memorize the rules. I'm constantly double-checking books to make sure I have the correct information. I know how faulty memory can be, especially in the heat of the moment.

- don't get hung up on following the rules exactly. (This is less for tournaments, and more for other styles of play). I'm pretty relaxed about house rules; if both players agree and can keep a game flowing, then that's better than a strict interpretation of the rules.

[the jeske]

Thing is dbad is rather vogue as social rules, because for some people, lets say in 7th ed, the sole fact that you may consider playing Tau automaticly made you a dick. Seems like an easy way to discredit someone doing something you don't like, which may not necessarily, but dickish in nature.

 

When I still played I expected 3 things from my opponent. His list, hate and him being on time.

 

 

- don't memorize the rules

 

That would make playing at a serious tournament level more or less very unfriendly, because all of the games would go to time, if both or even one player constantly checks rules, instead of memorising them.

Edited August 16, 2017 by the jeske

[Mileposter]

For myself, I do have simple rules I follow. I like Adeptus' separation of 'Deal Breakers' and 'Tolerations', so I'm going to steal it. Deal Breakers by no means says I'm going to stop being civil or polite, just that the game may not get underway (or may end, if it already has). Someone breaking the DBAD rule will lose the benefit of my civility - but I endeavor to be polite in any situation.
 
Deal Breakers:
Pay attention to the game
Hygiene enough that it isn't distracting
Speak English clearly enough I can at least partially understand
Respect the FLGS and your fellow players
Don't cheat
 
Tolerations:
Clumsy grasp of the rules - Learning is one thing, and with a new edition we always have moments where we mix up old edition rules with new stuff. But please show that you care about what rules you're playing with.
Handsy with models - I like it when my work is appreciated, so when someone wants to see my models, that's a happy. But being overly touchy with the models comes off as creepy.
Playing with Forge World rules - I know I'm an odd one out on the internet, but it's been my experience that Forgeworld's rules are hardly ever balanced. Love their models, but...
Negative Criticism - "Why don't you run X formation?" "You should have moved here." "Y model is so much better." - critique about a list or game is healthy and positive. It's how we improve. But constantly saying "You're doing it wrong" never feels good. To anyone.
Unmatched Intent - If you came to a game looking for fluffy narrative play and I'm looking to crush all who stand before me under my heels, or vice versa... We're probably gonna frustrate each other.
The Win or Die attitude - The point of the game is to win, yes. The point of every game is to win. But winning isn't the point of playing the game. Don't put winning above having fun.
 
I'll also note, to play my own Devil's Advocate, that I have had several cases where the Tolerations were present but I was still having a blast anyway. They irk me, and can make me grumble a bit, but the game could still be fun.
 
I would like to challenge two thoughts I've seen a few times, though. I'll use myself as an example in both questions.

1. Seeing no progress with model painting.

While I agree that part of the game is the hobby, and painted models should be a goal, I challenge the requirement that you have to see it. I have three armies, which I acquired extremely quickly because I had a bout of really good fortune with finances for a while. It obviously takes longer to paint models than to buy them, so all three armies are not yet finished. I'm greatly enjoying playing my Space Marines. But I'm loving my time painting my Eldar. I am making progress with my painting, steadily and constantly, but if you only saw me at the game table, you'd never know - because I'm fielding my Space Marines. Am I hitting the irk spot for you?
 
2. Modeling options. 

During 7th I spend a LOT of cash on getting all the Grav Cannons, etc for my Ultras. I'm not allowing someone else to insult me and others by saying his heavy flamers are las cannons etc.

Forgive me for quoting one person out specifically, but this illustrates my question. I built my Space Marines in proper formation - 10 man squad, one model is a sergeant, one model has a heavy weapon and one model has a special weapon. It is easy to tell which is which. However, in one list that heavy weapon is a lascannon, in another it is a grav cannon. The model's heavy weapon is a missile launcher. To make certain I am understanding correctly... Using this model is an insult? Am I required to purchase and construct a separate heavy weapon model for grav cannon, lascannon, missile launcher, heavy bolter, multi-melta, and plasma cannon for each of my squads to avoid this insult?  Must I construct a separate Captain for each option configuration?

[Adeptus]

Am I required to purchase and construct a separate heavy weapon model for grav cannon, lascannon, missile launcher, heavy bolter, multi-melta, and plasma cannon for each of my squads

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a person to include a lascannon model if they want to use a lascannon in their list.

[Ishagu]

Pentharian - I actually own 6 Marine Captains in every configuration worthwhile. Yes, I'd say so.

[Slave to Darkness]

Actually one thing that really :cusss me off, people cleaning their dirty nails with the sword points of my minis. Yes that has happened.