Land Raider version ?

[Tonius]

Hello Brothers,

 

I'm gonna take a LR for my BA 2nd company but I'm still hesitating on which version to choose:

- the regular one, with twin LC is really polyvalent and can do well against any army.

- the crusader is really shooty and anti-troops but I wonder if it's good against Necrons and Heretic SM (my main ennemies)

 

I'd really like your feedback on those two versions in the 8th, thanks !

[Spagunk]

I see a lot of lists with crusaders. I think the standard "godhammer" version may take some time for people to get re-used to but is interesting as a gun platform.

 

If you have enough anti-infantry, the lascannon version may be better for your needs.

[Karhedron]

Rather than trying to decide which is better, ask yourself what role you want it to play in your army. Do you need to transport large squads like 15-man Death Company or Terminators and characters into battle? If so, choose the Crusader. Do you need something that can provide heavy firepower that is not affected by moving? If so, the regular version is better.

 

Decide what you want the Land Raider to do and choose accordingly rather than trying to decide which is best and then having to shape the rest of your army around it.

[Tonius]

Rather than trying to decide which is better, ask yourself what role you want it to play in your army. Do you need to transport large squads like 15-man Death Company or Terminators and characters into battle? If so, choose the Crusader. Do you need something that can provide heavy firepower that is not affected by moving? If so, the regular version is better.

 

Decide what you want the Land Raider to do and choose accordingly rather than trying to decide which is best and then having to shape the rest of your army around it.

Well, I want a solid tool that can be adaptable to many strategies and ennemies.

I'm not really asking which one is better, but rather which one is more versatile. I would say the Godhammer but I still don't have any game experience in the 8th.

I don't realise if twin AC and two hurricane bolters can wipe out heavy stuff.

 

 

Crusader:                                                                                                       Godammer:

- can transport more marines                                                                         - very effective against armor (vehicule and heavy infantry)

- a lot of dakka against hordes and light troops                                             - less effective against numbers

- less effective against armor                                                                         - reliable against many types of armies

 

On paper I would say the standard Godhammer is versatile enough to adapt to a lot of situation, but I lack the battelfield experience and it seems that you guys play a lot of Crusaders in your lists.

[SM1981]

Err... Both!

[NTaW]

If the lascannon variant had more than a 10 model transport capacity it would be a lot more popular. That's the only thing that ever really stopped me from using it.

 

While I would likely use a Crusader in most scenarios I'm still quite interested in Redeemers. Since there's no longer the need to line up templates you'll always, if in range, be able to put both flamestorm cannons on the same target which could do a lot of damage to certain enemies. I do wish the FC had a bit of a more impressive stat line though as dice generated attacks are somewhat annoying to count on for such a high point investment.

[Morticon]

Reedemers are very good.  Great for bringing units into the thick of things. 

Godhammer variant also very versatile.  

I'm personally not a huge fan of the Crusader- but that's personal choice.  

[rayvn26]

Fill the Crusader with Thunder Hammers, as an assault vehicle charge them out at the enemy's armor and let the dakka do it's thing to the troops.

[Karhedron]

 

On paper I would say the standard Godhammer is versatile enough to adapt to a lot of situation, but I lack the battelfield experience and it seems that you guys play a lot of Crusaders in your lists.

 

My experience so far in 8th has led me to be cautious about relying on a small number of long-ranged anti-tank weapons like lascannons. I have found that the variance is too high to reliably delete large targets like vehicles and monsters. Melta-guns have been more reliable for me so far in both my Eldar and Space Wolves as these can be fielded in decent numbers and the ability to roll 2 dice for damage and pick the highest makes them a lot more reliable.

 

Weapons that do fixed amounts of damage like Thunder Hammers are also very good provided you have a delivery mechanism. Overcharged plasma is another good option provided that you can a Captain (or equivalent) nearby to reroll 1s to Hit. In this case 2 damage but multiple weapons per squad also makes for a reliable option.

 

Based on that, I would hesitantly lean towards to the Crusader as it relies on weight of fire rather than a few high strength shots to hurt the enemy. Use it to transport something suitably dangerous and you should be good to go.

 

If you are up to it, magnetising your weapon options may be worth considering.

 

One thing I have found to be worthwhile are Hunter-killer missiles on every tank that can take them. These are cheap and fairly effective tank-busters in 8th edition. Whilst they are only 1-shot, they are cheap enough to be virtually an auto-include for me. If you have 4-5 across all your available vehicles, it is like having an extra Devastator squad firing for a turn.

[Indefragable]

I think the standard/Godhammer pattern is just too expensive. IMO almost 400pts for 4x lascannon shots and some heavy bolters is nuts.

 

LR's, for me, serve 2x purposes:

1. Transporting a deathstar (because at their cost, you might as well protect something worthwhile)

2. Distraction carnifex.

 

If the Godhammer had 4x independently targetable lascannon instead of 2x twin shots, then I think it would start earning its reputation back as a decent gun platform. But as is it can only shoot at two targets. For the that cost, you can almost get 2x full Dev squads with heavy weapons and ablative wounds...that also get cover way more easily. And each HW in a Dev squad can fire at a different target.

 

I personally like the Crusader the best, since it has the most synergy to me:

 

1. It's the cheapest variant, so more points for more beatstick

2. It puts out some decent dakka with 24(!) bolter shots in Rapid Fire range, plus the 12 AC shots. This really helps to clear chaff squads so that your bomb unit can get a clear charge off

3. It's up-close nature helps your army in general. This is a bit counter intuitive since most vehicles you want to keep away from the enemy: you want your Predators away from the short range melta guns, etc... The LRC helps with target saturation because the enemy is now forced to choose between the big scary LR or the Dreads, or assbacks, or whatever else you've flooded his lines with. A Godhammer sitting back lascannon sniping makes his choice for him.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Indefragable

[kalenein]

So little love for the Redeemer, I would put my dice on the Redeemer hands down, you have to remember those two flame storm cannons auto Hit for over watch! and they murder and most thing do not even get a save against it! I have watched a Redeemer win multiple games all by itself in the opponents assault phase. Now that does not mean its the best variant but it is very effective.

[Brother_Mike]

If you are looking for a Land Raider variant that is more resilient than others, the Land Raider Excelisor seems like an interesting choice since it comes with a 5+ invulnerable save, which is great cause the weapons aimed against it will more likely than not negate its regular save.

 

Additionally, it has the captain aura, so you can reroll those treacherous 1s and takes up an HQ slot which makes it easier to min-max your battleforged detachments.

 

It also comes with a bunch of high strength shots stock (and the options for more), which personally is something my Blood Angels army lacks at the moment. The price tag is pretty hefty though, so while its not an auto-include, its a "tanky" ;) and unique choice in an army

[Tonius]

Thanks for all your advices !

 

As I was going for the LRC, my brother and I made a test (because he thinks the classic LR is the way to go).

LRC vs his Chaos LR, well, the Heretic wins ... Easily. It's only a theorical test, as no other units were involved, but still !

 

Godhammer LR will deal with heavy vehicules (monolith, hereric LRs, various tanks and Carnifex-style creatures) and it can kill an average 3-4 heavy infantry per turn.

The LRC will lower the HP of heavy vehicules if it focuses them, but it will kill a lot of light/medium infantry.

 

Once I know that, I'm still stuck with the choice because I like both but can't take both in my list...

The solution I came with is the following: replace the LR or LRC with 2 predators, one Baal pattern with twin AssCannons and 2 HB and one annihilator (two LC and a twin LC).

Doing that, I can fulfill two roles anti infantry and anti armour, for nearly the same point price. and the ennemy has two targets, not as tough as a LR but still armored targets.

[Panzer]

Thanks for all your advices !

 

As I was going for the LRC, my brother and I made a test (because he thinks the classic LR is the way to go).

LRC vs his Chaos LR, well, the Heretic wins ... Easily. It's only a theorical test, as no other units were involved, but still !

 

Godhammer LR will deal with heavy vehicules (monolith, hereric LRs, various tanks and Carnifex-style creatures) and it can kill an average 3-4 heavy infantry per turn.

The LRC will lower the HP of heavy vehicules if it focuses them, but it will kill a lot of light/medium infantry.

 

Once I know that, I'm still stuck with the choice because I like both but can't take both in my list...

The solution I came with is the following: replace the LR or LRC with 2 predators, one Baal pattern with twin AssCannons and 2 HB and one annihilator (two LC and a twin LC).

Doing that, I can fulfill two roles anti infantry and anti armour, for nearly the same point price. and the ennemy has two targets, not as tough as a LR but still armored targets.

Lol of course it wins. The Crusader is not supposed to wreck vehicles while the Godhammer is.

 

What you could do, if you want to stick with Landraider, is to magnetise them and switch whenever you feel like. However you really should consider them as transports since as pure weapon platform Predators are better anyway.

[Karhedron]

For similar points to an LRC you can get 3 Razorbacks with Assault Cannons. Not quite as tough but twice as many wounds overall and 36 S6 AP-1 shots. Plus you can transport squads in 3 different directions.

[Tonius]

For similar points to an LRC you can get 3 Razorbacks with Assault Cannons. Not quite as tough but twice as many wounds overall and 36 S6 AP-1 shots. Plus you can transport squads in 3 different directions.

Well, my list is quite "combined arms" style, and I like to have mobile fire support and I realised that I love the LR but I don't know which unit to put in it: my shock units have DS.

I have for 2000pts:

3 HQ ( captain, Lemartes and Mephiston)

3 Troops ( three 5-man squads)

4 elites (5 guys DC, a dreadnought, 5 termies and a sanguinary initiate)

1 Fast attack (5-man assault squad with JP)

2 supports ( 6-man Dev squad, a whirlwind )

1 transport ( twin Lascan Razorback )

So this leaves me room for around 390pts.

That's why I thought of a LR as a third support and as "The Big Tanky" stuff.

My termies are regular squad with SB, PF and an AC, so I intend to deepstrike them where needed. My DC and AS have JP so an airborne assault will probably be their way of entering the battlefield. My tactical are not gonna ride Razorbacks to CC but will hold objectives and provide fire support as long with the Dev. The dreadnought is equiped with CC weapon and twin Lascan so his role will depend on the battle.

This leaves me a gap that I wanted to fill with the LR. The godhammer would add anti-armour but wouldn't be a transport really. The LRC would add some anti-horde dakka and I would think about putting some guys in it. And the 2 Predators, one Baal and one annihilator would fulfill those two roles without the transport option, and less tanky.

 

That's how I was reasonning, theoretically as I am still "8th-virgin".

Edited August 16, 2017 by Tonius

[tychobi]

Magnets.  The model already takes a whole day to assemble.  Just do the magnets. You will thank yourself for the extra time/effort/cost in an edition or two.

[Brother apocalyptic]

Redeemer is my choice.. flamestorms have a good damageoutput vs pretty much all enemies.. instagibbs bikes/terminators. Can put a real hurt at tanks (5+ -2 2d)

 

Top that off with a Twin assault cannon and your looking at a transport which has a good chance of hurting pretty much whatever.

 

Put 5 hammernators, corbulo and a chaplain inside for some funsie

[Xenith]

Buy the deathwatch land raider box. Magnetise.

 

If your arms is lacking long range anti tank, the phobos is probably the better choice. Similarly if you have a lot of anti infantry already. If you have a dev squad and a load of melta already, and want to transport 6+ terms, then go crusader. 

 

I mean if you like rolling buckets of dice go Crusader. give it a storm bolter and you get 40 shots at 12".

[Tonius]

The magnetized deathwatch LR to have both options looks pretty interesting !

[Xenith]

The magnetized deathwatch LR to have both options looks pretty interesting !

All three options. It comes with flamestorm, hurricanes and godhammers.

[Karhedron]

Sadly the deathwatch variant appears to be sold out. You can get the Crusader/Redeemer upgrade sprue separately but it costs £12.30 

[TheHarrower]

I like the Redeemer and the Godhammer. Redeemer is my favorite though. More capacity and D3 Mortal Wounds on the charge is great too.

[Black_Sky]

It's called a Phobos you whippersnappers.

 

Now get off my Adeptus Biologica approved lawn

[Tonius]

It's called a Phobos you whippersnappers.

 

Now get off my Adeptus Biologica approved lawn

You'e right: Godhammer is the twin lascannon pattern.

 

Now, I'm struggling between a phobos pattern LR (I am more comfy with 2 twin lascan than 2 hurricane bolters) or two predators !!

The LR is a must-have for any space marine fan, and a great asset but should I include one, I would have to find which unit to put in it. And that's where the LRC is good: I can put my 5-man DC with JP and Lemartes, whereas I can't in the Phobos pattern.

I'm toying with my GW online store basket...

Edited August 17, 2017 by Tonius