HH Book 47: Old Earth

[Scribe]

Hilariously, I love Wraight’s Death Guard and White Scars. I skipped the book because of the Emperor’s Children.

 

They are good in it, I do recommend you read it. Its not distasteful EC at all. One of the best of the HH series, by far.

[Phoebus]

Humble opinion: Ravasch Cairo is easily the best supporting character that I can recall right now.

[bluntblade]

And Eidolon became competent.

[Karthak]

After reading and re-reading certain chapters of Old Earth, I have reached a conclusion: Vulkan should have slaughtered the Iron Fathers.

[b1soul]

The action in Know No Fear was described superbly in cinematic fashion. Considering that it's written in present tense, it reads like a white-knuckle, edge-of-your-seat script.

 

Not many authours are able to pull this off.

 

Also, I agree that there's good bolter porn and bland, uninspired bolter porn.

[Izlude]

Just ordered a copy of Old Earth pretty excited, overall seems solid. 

 

To get myself over 60 for free shipping I also ordered a hardback copy of First Heretic so at least there is a back-up if Old Earth bombs ha ha.

[Khornflakes]

Finished this last night; very enjoyable read. rattled through the book in no time. always been neutral about Kyme's writing, but this was a very enjoyable book. the trip through the 'eldritch gate', which reminded me of Lovecraft, Medusan's story arc conclusion (after reading stuff on here i was a tad miffed about how it was, but after reading the book it was well written), Salamander with a sense of humour and the reason for Vulkan's journey.

 

the only thing that kinda stood out as odd in the book was...

 

..Eldred's pursuit and killing of the perpetuals. was jarring to be taken from the main story-strands to this element of it. whatsisname from Betrayer...Damon (always think of the Matt Damon puppet)....was killed was too easily from how he was written in ADB book.

 

[Troubleshooter]

Seriously? Nobody is concerned about the part where Vulkan decides to stand guard over the Throne and Webway on Terra? That was the most interesting piece of information for me, which sadly says a lot about the book.

[DarkChaplain]

There's been so much foreshadowing about that particular point, I'd be surprised if it did blow people's minds.

[b1soul]

And we also know that Vulkan was out of the Webway/Throneroom by the War of the Beast.

 

Would have been cool if Vulkan had remained in the Webway and could still be there in current 40K

[DukeLeto69]

And we also know that Vulkan was out of the Webway/Throneroom by the War of the Beast.

Would have been cool if Vulkan had remained in the Webway and could still be there in current 40K

Yeah THIS totally THIS. While overall I liked TBA series (a mixed bag but some excellent books and a god concept overall) I hated the explanation for where Vulkan had been. Just seemed weak.

 

In current era 40k we know several loyalist Primarchs are unaccounted for. Makes total sense (to me) that they have been fighting an eternal war in the Webway and/or Warp (with time passing differently for them) ever since HH and Scouring era.

[Tymell]

Just finished Old Earth myself, and I have mixed feelings on it.

 

Positive:

I honestly think this is Kyme's best writing within the series, certainly out of the Salamanders books. The prose is genuinely enjoyable and flows well enough. Still not the best, but a step up from Deathfire and a HUGE step up from Vulkan Lives. I never once felt bored reading this, which is a lot more than I can say for Vulkan Lives. The character work is also better: In Vulkan Lives, aside from Vulkan, Curze and maybe Narek, every character felt totally bland and forgettable. In Deathfire we got a couple I remember. In Old Earth I found a bunch of characters I liked and remembered. The character interactions are enjoyable and there's some endearing dark humour scattered around.

 

Neutral:

It's important to know going in that this is just as much an Iron Hands book as it is a Salamanders one, if not more so. A few chapters at the start + the last quarter or so of the book are dedicated to Vulkan, and a series of small chapters throughout are focused on others. The rest, probably around 60% of the book, is about Meduson and the Iron Hands, with Vulkan and his Draaksward present but not the focus. This isn't a complaint, but I didn't expect quite that much of it to be on that topic, and I think people should know this going in.

 

Negative:

The problems I have here are rooted in a series of plot points which I felt were badly handled.

 

1.) The whole "cult of the Gorgon" thing was an interesting idea, but the end result was bizarre. As I read it, the thing the Iron Fathers made was little more than a cobbled-together junkyard mechanical puppet with one of Ferrus Manus' hands stitched on. It felt laughable that they actually revered it and felt it was a good way to lead, like a HH version of someone with a hand puppet insisting:

 

"It's a real person! You're real, aren't you little Ferrus?"

*funny voice* "Oh yes! Gottle of geer, gottle of geer!"

 

When they had the scene hinting at Aug taking something from Ferrus' body on Isstvan, I was intrigued. If they'd made some kind of failed clone or plausible cyborg from it, I'd be down, but what we got, and the notion that it would actually fool the rest of the legion, just felt silly.

 

2.) The end of Meduson. I don't mind the dark ending for him at all, this is HH after all. But Aug's second turn on him felt like betrayal for betrayal's sake. Meduson has led a boarding action on Marr's ship, and certainly this is a bold way to do it, and it would be more cautious to stay back at a distance. But there's nothing to say this is doomed to failure at this point, and the Iron Fathers prevent Meduson's reinforcements from making it through. It's one thing to callously abandon what seems to be a lost cause, but this is outright sabotaging their own side, even murdering at least one legionary going to help Meduson. Again, my problem here is not that it's dark or immoral, it's that it feels completely unnecessary, and it also lessens the notion of Meduson's obsession leading to his downfall, because it's not his fault, it's the fault of the Iron Fathers.

 

I would have preferred if instead they'd let the attack go ahead, but Meduson's need to kill Marr led to more tactically faulty choices, hurting the battle as a whole, and they'd ultimately abandoned him when it became obvious he cared more about killing Marr than winning the battle.

 

3.) The ending didn't feel particularly satisfying to me, because I didn't really see why Vulkan needed to make that talisman and bring it back. Sure, I get it, it's a last resort self-destruct for Terra in case Chaos wins. But are we really being told the Emperor, with all his resources and power, couldn't make something like that himself? Why did Vulkan need to make it? Why did -he- need to bring it back to Terra? Why couldn't it have been there all along? It just felt like it wasn't properly explained.

 

Again, I think there are better ways to do this. Like if they'd said that whatever power the Emperor imbued into Vulkan to make him perpetual, that "eternal fire", was the same power needed to destroy Terra. The Emperor put it there to keep it safe. When Vulkan was killed properly, that power transferred into the talisman, or even the fulgurite itself. Then Vulkan has to bring that back to Terra. And to be fair, maybe this is exactly what the book is trying to say, but personally I feel it didn't convey it very well, because my immediate thought after reading is "Why didn't the Emperor just build a planetary bomb?" It wasn't book-ruining by any stretch, I just think it could've been done better.

 

Also, Narek had no need to be on Nocturne, since Eldrad just whisked him off of it as soon as he appeared, and while not a problem so much with this book, it really highlighted how completely pointless he was in Deathfire. He didn't -need- to follow the Salamanders or get to Nocturne, Eldrad could've found him elsewhere after Unremembered Empire.

 

And Nick Kyme isn't the only one to do this, but I -really- dislike the literary device of letting a scene run on while coyly only identifying the character as "he". It's fine if it's part of a mystery, but if it's just done for a few pages before it's revealed who "he" is, it just gets on my nerves. I usually find myself skipping forward, reading who "he" is, then going back and reading it properly. This happens twice in the book, it's minor, but irritating.

 

 

I realise I spend a lot more time talking about the negatives, but hey, ranting. All in all, I still think this is the best of the three Salamanders HH novels, and purely in terms of it's prose I think it shows a solid improvement in Nick Kyme's work. But those plot points above bother me, and hold it back in my eyes, especially since in every case I think the core idea is fine and could be done well, it's just handled poorly.

[b1soul]

They've been building up Meduson as a legendary loyalist leader since Little Horus...and I feel that

 

EDIT: Add spoiler tags

 

he should have either survived the Heresy or gone out with a bang. Seems like he goes out with a whimper here.

[mc warhammer]

They've been building up Meduson as a legendary loyalist leader since Little Horus...and I feel that

 

EDIT: Add spoiler tags

 

he should have either survived the Heresy or gone out with a bang. Seems like he goes out with a whimper here.

 

well, that's a bit game of thrones isn't it? the old set up the grand legendary hero and

pull the rug out from under their and our feet

[DarkChaplain]

In my opinion

this is something that HAD to happen. Meduson being successful and praised as a big hero of the Heresy would put a stop to a lot of the philosophical degradation of the Iron Hands.

 

Meduson really did hold a position rather similar to that of Ferrus Manus himself, in that he didn't approve of all the machinations (pun intended) of the Iron Fathers and the whole cult of the machine. Ferrus would've wanted to revert the course of the Legion, but died before he could do so. But the Iron Fathers are so far up their own backalleys, they could not let it happen - and we knew he had to die, otherwise the Iron Hands wouldn't have been so messed up in the current day.

 

Shadrak Meduson was in the way of the inevitable decline and inhumanity of the Legion. Him dying to betrayal (which was set up in Shattered Legions anyway) is not just thematically on point, but also adds another layer of tragedy to the Iron Tenth's fall. They had the keys to heaven, but chose the keys of hel instead, if you excuse me putting it that way. Him dying successful, fulfilling his oath to take Tybalt Marr's head, would have made him an even bigger symbol to the Legion and the Imperium at large. He was already becoming a legend during the Heresy and managed to gather ever more to his cause. That could not be allowed to go on forever.

 

Even if he had died taking Marr's head, he'd have been a martyr to the Shattered Legions. But now he went out not with a bang, but in disgrace, his oath unfulfilled, resources squandered, with bad PR all around. Seeing how the Iron Fathers decide to bugger off to Medusa and leave the Heresy War behind, you can imagine how desperate they were to get rid of Shadrak's perceived folly.

 

I think over the course of the Heresy we have forgotten that, sometimes, the hero dies in the end. Sometimes, they actually lose. Sometimes, things don't work out and plot armor only takes you so far.

Not every character in the series should fulfill some grander purpose (though I would argue that Meduson did, through his failure and the Legion's conspiracies). Some die in ignominy.

Loken should never have been brought back, in my opinion. His death, as a martyr to his ideals, was far more fitting than him returning to confront Horus and try to free Torgaddon's soul (which I also didn't like much; Erebus harvesting Tarik's gene-seed and sacrificing it to his patrons was cool, a twisted version coming back from the dead was awkward). I was amazed if shocked at Argel Tal's demise, because for the first time in ages, a main player in the series got sent off the stage for good.

 

We have so many known characters we have gotten comfortable with and know for certain will survive, I feel like what the Heresy needs is more important players like Shadrak Meduson, who don't live on and leave a positive mark in the long run. Who really show us that this is a desperate war, not a little brawl where all the fan-favorites survive and go found their own Chapters or still wage war 10,000 years later.

[b1soul]

I'm OK with Meduson kicking the bucket...that's not my issue

My issue is that we're told (not shown) what an incredible leader he is...and then he rather abruptly dies in rather underwhelming fashion.

How he's handled reminds me of how Imperium Secendus was handled frankly

[mc warhammer]

I'm OK with Meduson kicking the bucket...that's not my issue

 

My issue is that we're told (not shown) what an incredible leader he is...and then he rather abruptly dies in rather underwhelming fashion.

 

How he's handled reminds me of how Imperium Secendus was handled frankly

 

yeah, but that comes back to GoT thing.

the way ned kicks the bucket is "underwhelming" and subverts the trope. you could say the same for the red viper. or tywin lannister's toilet death.

 

maybe meduson is the same.

 

the expectation that he will go out kicking arse, while fair to expect as a genre trope, is a little trite. not every great warrior gets a grand death.

 

at least meduson didn't slip on a banana peel

 

personally, i like a bit of subversion in my stories

[b1soul]

I'm not very familiar with GoT...so GoT references are mostly lost on me.

To me, it's lame when the awe-inspiring mastermind of the Shattered Legions resistance isn't shown to do anything justifying that exalted reputation.

It strikes me as jarring, rather than as cleverly subversive or "what a great twist".

I admit that I haven't read the book...but I'm allergic to Kyme's Heresy work. I tried to start Vulkan Lives this summer and couldn't get through the first hundred pages.

[mc warhammer]

I'm not very familiar with GoT...so GoT references are mostly lost on me.

 

To me, it's lame when the awe-inspiring mastermind of the Shattered Legions resistance isn't shown to do anything justifying that exalted reputation.

 

It strikes me as jarring, rather than as cleverly subversive or "what a great twist".

 

I admit that I haven't read the book...but I'm allergic to Kyme's Heresy work. I tried to start Vulkan Lives this summer and couldn't get through the first hundred pages.

 

no, fair enough. that's the expectation in the vast majority of the genre (and most heroic fiction). awesome dude has awesome death. guts n glory. etc.

 

it's all a taste thing, i guess. i like the meat and potatoes approach too at times, but i groan when that stuff happens too often (and it does).

[b1soul]

I think it's a fine line...

 

There's also the other extreme: awesome guy has death so xXx-treme it stretches reader incredulity

 

I'll be satisfied with something memorable without being over-the-top.

 

Based on the summary, his betrayal by the Iron Fathers is rather ham-fisted...not really my cup of tea

 

...but then Kyme hasn't written something I like since Fall of Damnos

[mc warhammer]

i can't speak for the quality, as always it's down to the execution. and i agree, sometimes "awesome death" goes into self parody.

 

actually, even transformers these days subverts the trope. not sure if anyone here has read wreckers last stand, but it turns the whole "one shall stand one stall fall" thing on its head. 

[Guest Anakwanar]

Finished this last night; very enjoyable read. rattled through the book in no time. always been neutral about Kyme's writing, but this was a very enjoyable book. the trip through the 'eldritch gate', which reminded me of Lovecraft, Medusan's story arc conclusion (after reading stuff on here i was a tad miffed about how it was, but after reading the book it was well written), Salamander with a sense of humour and the reason for Vulkan's journey.

 

the only thing that kinda stood out as odd in the book was...

 

..Eldred's pursuit and killing of the perpetuals. was jarring to be taken from the main story-strands to this element of it. whatsisname from Betrayer...Damon (always think of the Matt Damon puppet)....was killed was too easily from how he was written in ADB book.

 

Very enjoyable read - right. 

Cabal butchered off screen cause we rushing to Terra. Vulkan being 'Kyme' Vulkan. That BIG resolution with the Empra - that's the same kind of 'YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE RESOLUTION' Bowden has promised for Imperium Secundus. Which was a whimper of pathetic 'Ruinstorm'. 

And of course  - the promised end of Marr vs Meduson duel. Unexplored and rushed are the most obvious things coming to mind with it. 

Plus absolutely unnessessary golem hand of Manus. SM bowing to a 'hand' - what a masterpiece of a novel.

[Tymell]

 

Finished this last night; very enjoyable read. rattled through the book in no time. always been neutral about Kyme's writing, but this was a very enjoyable book. the trip through the 'eldritch gate', which reminded me of Lovecraft, Medusan's story arc conclusion (after reading stuff on here i was a tad miffed about how it was, but after reading the book it was well written), Salamander with a sense of humour and the reason for Vulkan's journey.

 

the only thing that kinda stood out as odd in the book was...

 

..Eldred's pursuit and killing of the perpetuals. was jarring to be taken from the main story-strands to this element of it. whatsisname from Betrayer...Damon (always think of the Matt Damon puppet)....was killed was too easily from how he was written in ADB book.

 

Very enjoyable read - right. 

Cabal butchered off screen cause we rushing to Terra. Vulkan being 'Kyme' Vulkan. That BIG resolution with the Empra - that's the same kind of 'YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE RESOLUTION' Bowden has promised for Imperium Secundus. Which was a whimper of pathetic 'Ruinstorm'. 

And of course  - the promised end of Marr vs Meduson duel. Unexplored and rushed are the most obvious things coming to mind with it. 

Plus absolutely unnessessary golem hand of Manus. SM bowing to a 'hand' - what a masterpiece of a novel.

...heritora?

[Carach]

thats what i was thinking "who is this chap with only 8 posts, all of which are negative? and where has Heritora got to?"

 

thanks for the spoiler tags too, brah

[Marshal Rohr]

Now we know what the A in Heritor A stood for.