Custodian Athiair Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I don't know if this is just rookie exuberance when it comes to chaos, but I am wondering why I haven't seen a lot of chat about the psychic power Gift of Chaos. From my initial brief read of the store copy of the codex this power sounds like so much fun to me. Take a sorcerer (probably with jet pack or disk) and have them running around the battle field getting within 6 inches of an enemy unit. Targetting the sgt, you pass the test on a 6+ (so above average) and then you automatically turn any Sgt type character into a spawn (with four mortal wounds potentially 6). That spawn then gets placed "within 1'' of the killed model", which means it gets put within 1'' of the enemy unit, which means you've essentially just charged a unit without facing overwatch, with a big gribbly monster which will lash out and do a fair amount of damage. Even if it doesn't wipe out the squad it might tie it up for a turn. At which point your Sorcerer runs away again to go turn another squad leader into a big deamonic monster. Rinse and repeat? Possibly combine the psychic power with Warptime, so you can move the Sorcerer away from the ensuing wrath of nearby units after creating spawn out of their buddy. It's just one of a few "fun" ideas I've had about running Chaos Space Marines. Screw being hyper competitive ;P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I remember a similar power in the Gav Dex (my first chaos codex back in 5th). I called it my "Turn Kyle into a Chicken" power (and modeled one of my spawn to be as much like a chicken as I could). Only got it off a couple of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMuumio Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) Unit champions aren't characters in this edition I think. Also you have to set points to reserve to actually get the spawn in matched play. Edited August 16, 2017 by TheMuumio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Squad Sergeants are no Character so they wouldn't turn into spawns. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnboardG1 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Commissars, on the other hand, are. Which combined with Night Lords Ld stacking debuffs is fun. Turn the Commissar into a Spawn and then assault the conscripts with Raptors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoGuy Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 It is important to note that you first have to roll above the target's toughness. So for GEQ you have to roll a 4+ and for MEQ you have to roll a 5+. Against Commissars and other T3 models it may be worth a gamble (50/50 to trigger the mortal wounds) but against most other targets it won't be reliable enough. After all you have to shove the Sorcerer right into the character's face, which means that there probably will be enemy units nearby. And if your Sorcerer fails to kill his target - and statistics say he will fail 2 out of 3 times against T4 - then he stands there unprotected and will probably get killed. To make this work you would have to support your Sorcerer with melee units that want to be close to other units anyway. A Jumppack is a good idea. Drop him near the character you want dead, cast Warptime to get the Sorc close and then cast GoC. Use a stratagem re-roll the toughness-test to boost your chances of success. If you do this be mindfull that it is a suicide mission. If I were your opponent and you drop a Sorcerer into my lines and kill a character of mine, I'll get revenge and kill the Sorcerer. You can add some survivability to the Sorcerer by deepstriking some Raptors with the Icon of Khorne to get them into melee alongside your Sorc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnboardG1 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I just read the spawn rules again. -1Ld to nearby enemy units from fearsome. I have to take Gift in my Night Lords army... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 It honestly is more like the cherry on top kind of power. You are about to charge the enemy lines and there is a character nearby? Try to turn him into a spawn or at least wound him heavily so he won't bother you anymore. Not reliable enough for a suicide strategy tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custodian Athiair Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 Unit champions aren't characters in this edition I think. Also you have to set points to reserve to actually get the spawn in matched play. Squad Sergeants are no Character so they wouldn't turn into spawns. The rules for the psychic power do not state "character", they state choose a model within 6''. So that is not an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custodian Athiair Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 It is important to note that you first have to roll above the target's toughness. So for GEQ you have to roll a 4+ and for MEQ you have to roll a 5+. Against Commissars and other T3 models it may be worth a gamble (50/50 to trigger the mortal wounds) but against most other targets it won't be reliable enough. After all you have to shove the Sorcerer right into the character's face, which means that there probably will be enemy units nearby. And if your Sorcerer fails to kill his target - and statistics say he will fail 2 out of 3 times against T4 - then he stands there unprotected and will probably get killed. To make this work you would have to support your Sorcerer with melee units that want to be close to other units anyway. A Jumppack is a good idea. Drop him near the character you want dead, cast Warptime to get the Sorc close and then cast GoC. Use a stratagem re-roll the toughness-test to boost your chances of success. If you do this be mindfull that it is a suicide mission. If I were your opponent and you drop a Sorcerer into my lines and kill a character of mine, I'll get revenge and kill the Sorcerer. You can add some survivability to the Sorcerer by deepstriking some Raptors with the Icon of Khorne to get them into melee alongside your Sorc. It is why I mentioned using Warptime *after* casting Gift of Chaos, as it allows you to move quickly away via jump pack or disk. I agree you have a point on the risk of failing the Toughness test, but that's what CP's are for ;P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totgeboren Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Unit champions aren't characters in this edition I think. Also you have to set points to reserve to actually get the spawn in matched play. Squad Sergeants are no Character so they wouldn't turn into spawns. The rules for the psychic power do not state "character", they state choose a model within 6''. So that is not an issue. You can target any model, but only Characters turn into Spawn. Also, since I can find no exception to the basic rules, I think the TheMuumio is right in that you need to set aside points for the spawn too, both which really limit the use of the power. I mean, in most cases, Smite is a lot better. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Unit champions aren't characters in this edition I think. Also you have to set points to reserve to actually get the spawn in matched play. Squad Sergeants are no Character so they wouldn't turn into spawns. The rules for the psychic power do not state "character", they state choose a model within 6''. So that is not an issue. It does for the part that turns the targeted model into a spawn tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custodian Athiair Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 Unit champions aren't characters in this edition I think. Also you have to set points to reserve to actually get the spawn in matched play. Squad Sergeants are no Character so they wouldn't turn into spawns. The rules for the psychic power do not state "character", they state choose a model within 6''. So that is not an issue. It does for the part that turns the targeted model into a spawn tho. Apologies I don't actually have the codex, so this post was made on memory of what I read while in store. Okay so not that great, that's disappointing actually. Still could make a mockery of Lieutenants though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabocius Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) Interesting discussion here. Main problem of the power is the range : 6" is not enough to cast it right after deepstrike, and in most case you may actually need to use warptime on another unit. So the only way to us it imo is by giving mobility to your sorcerer, either with jump pack or bike or steed (they're still available from the index after all). You will also need a fast shield unit such as raptors, bikers or deepstriking terminators. Also as you'll have to roll over T of the target, only GeQ are a good target. As you'll targetting GeQ, you shall equip your shield unit with flamers, lots of it ! Main interest of the power : you target a specific model, allowing you to snipe special/heavy weapons bearers or sergents or even a commissar or such if your opponent wasn't careful enough. Finally the number of wounds : generic rules states that mortal wound keep being alocated, even if the original target is dead...but it speaks of a "target unit". So I'm not sure that if the target is specifically a model, the wounds would keep on being allocated... If yes, that's not that bad, as you would kill 4-6 models in a unit on a 50/50 basis. Plus the flamers flamers of your shield unit, that's starting to make big holes even in big units of conscripts, cultists, etc. Let's talk about this : Sorc w/ jump pack, force sword, combi-flamer - 137 5 raptors, 2 flamers, combi-flamer - 114 total 251 Against GeQ that's a potential in average of 2.5 (GoC) + 8 (flamers + bolt pistols + combi bolter) = 10.5 dead people. Rather big hole, but most of it thanks to the flamers, and that's if you can keep on allocating model wounds on non targetted models, which is not certain. In conclusion I'd say that sadly, as in the previous codex, the power is useless unless your opponent is stupid enough to give you a <6" access to a sufficiantly juicy character. Edit : it could maybe have a kind of scarecrow effect of 6"+mvt around your sorc for ennemy characters, which is not that bad, but that's exactly why you will not be able to use the power ! Edited August 17, 2017 by Gabocius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnboardG1 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 You can also put your sorc in a rhino with an assault unit like zerks. I'm working towards two units of 9 berzerkers in Rhinos with embedded Exalted Champ and DA. There are situations though where I might want to take the sorc with them though and that's when I might take gift of chaos (this week's Konor campaign for instance where I can use warptime to get units off the board). Remember that a Daemon Prince can also take this, so if you're using him as a beatstick it might be worth taking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeinox Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 It's a very cool spell and I understand this thread is about having fun with the power. However, since I fight Guilliman a lot or just get shot off the board with missile launchers, it doesn't see much use with me. I would like to use it on Ahriman and stick him inside a rhino with some flamer dudes. He is quite durable with a 3++ re-rolling 1s, but that means I'm not putting the spell on his buddies who should be screening him. I'm thinking hop out of Rhino, move 6+d6", Gift of Chaos, Warptime back 6+d6" behind Rubric buddies. Hopefully Scarab Occult would be dropped in to help keep him safe. Big problem is thats a lot of variables to work with. Better off taking Death Hex or something, I think. Good luck making it work though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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