Thoughs on our psychic phase dominance

[Gentlemanloser]

Faced nids last night in an allied match.

 

Came away with a few thoughts.

 

1. Strikes in Razors are cool, but limit our psychic phase presence, as they can't deny while embarked.

 

2. Nid player got this wrong (would have made little difference if he'd gone for 4 of them) but was casting smite with each individual Zoan, instead of as a unit.

 

Normal smite *hurts*, and puts our watered down version to shame.

 

And if he had 4... 2 smites each doing 2d3 mortal wounds base.

 

On a unit with a 3++ save.

 

3. Shadows of the warp negates our +1 manifest.

 

4. I was out psychic'd by nids...

[Chronos Darkhelmet]

I suspect that if your mate had correctly played Zoans the match would have been fairer ;)

 

Then I don't understand a fact: who was going to apply an invul save on mortals???

[Godeskian]

Ouch. Yeah having come up against the real smite a few times it's utterly brutal compared to ours. Sure, we might technically have more of them, but given our unit cost I'm not convinced we actually do more smite damage, or even equal smite damage, on average.

 

I'm disappointed to hear that the +1 is negated by shadow of the warp. It's a useful but not exactly game breaking bonus as it is, and it seems easily overcome.

 

Thanks for your thoughts. I've yet to face nids and no one in my local meta plays them, but it's definitely something to keep in mind

[Matt_149]

I think our smite is pretty good, my mate dropped 10 vets with th and ss next to an objective turn one I deepstruck and shunted 6 units in front of it and removed 6 models with smite. It took everyone's shooting to kill the last 4. Did the job :)

[Gentlemanloser]

For sure. My GM NDK was removed by two zoan smites doing a total of 6 mortal wounds from those two casts. But if he'd had 4 in the squad and played correctly it would have been the same. So I'm not that salty and we sorted out the unit by the end of the match so they'd be played correctly in future.

 

Our +1 deny isn't effected by Shadows, as that only applies to Psychic Tests. But still a little naughty that one half of our chapter tactic can be negated for 'free'. ;)

 

And i need more disembarked units. :/

 

I just ment that the zoans had a 3++ save, on top of a potentially buffed smite.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[Matt_149]

How many wounds do they have?

[Helycon]

They have 3 wounds each. Considering they're T4, it's relatively easy to wound them with Storm Bolters. They're dirt-cheap though, only 40 points per model. Yikes... 

 

I feel our psychic dominance doesn't need to cover all other armies. It makes sense for Grey Knights to be some of the most powerful Psykers of the Imperium, but other races most certainly can be more capable. 

[Gentlemanloser]

With 4 of them the unit can cast two smites, each doing an extra d3 mortal wounds.

 

So 2d3 base or d6+d3 if you roll high enough.

 

And we had to have a nerfed version...

[Adeptus]

Zoanthropes go down to weight of fire pretty quickly. I had a 75 PL game against Nids last night and I felt handily in charge of the psychic phase. He had a Malanthrope, a Magus, 3 Zoans and a Hive Tyrant but that +1 to deny the witch was potent, and being able to deny psychic powers with practically any unit in my army meant that not a single power he manifested went unchallenged, and while I couldn't stop ALL of them it was a constant uphill battle for my opponent to do anything.

[Beams]

If your really worried, take a librarian for a +2 to deny.

[RedemptionNL]

With 4 of them the unit can cast two smites, each doing an extra d3 mortal wounds.

 

So 2d3 base or d6+d3 if you roll high enough.

 

And we had to have a nerfed version...

A psyker cannot attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once in a turn. They can just attempt to cast one of the Hive Mind Discipline powers besides Smite each turn.

[Gentlemanloser]

I'm talking about thier smite though.

 

Not catalyst, onslaught or the horror. I think that are thier three powers.

 

4 zoans get to cast 2 smites a turn. For 2d3 mortal wound each or 1d6+1d3.

 

At 160 points, that's not a bad unit.

 

Adeptus, my issue was two Stike squads in Razors.

 

That ment i was 4 units down for deny, and he had more psychers in the table than i did.

 

Strikes in Razors are cool, but ment i lost the psychic phase in that game.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[RedemptionNL]

I know, but you can't cast Smite multiple times with one unit in one turn. Only with different units in the same turn. The only rule Zoanthropes have regarding Smite is that they do an extra D3 mortal wounds when there are 4 or more models in it, not that they can (attempt to) cast it more often.

[Gentlemanloser]

Actually thier smite rule allows them to manifest smite twice if the unit contains 4+ models.

 

It's under the smite section itself, not the warp blast section that gives them the extra d3 mortal wounds per smite.

 

Unless I've been cheated even further! Lol. ;)

 

I don't own the xeno index, so going by information from last night.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[Captain Coolpants]

Well D3 extra or an extra cast is the same end result unless you roll a 12 or something.

 

But I'm excited to play against tyranids this edition. I felt bad pulverising them last. Now the seem soooo scary

[Helycon]

They do not get to cast it twice. The only thing is the Warp Blast that makes it 2D3 or D6+D3.

[Gentlemanloser]

God damn it...

 

Game should have gone much differently.

[RedemptionNL]

They can cast a second power a turn if they have 4 or more models. Not Smite a second time. So as I said previously, they can only cast one of the Hive Mind Discipline powers in addition to Smite then.

[Matt_149]

That sucks dude. Was it a pick up game at a store?

[Gentlemanloser]

Nah, second game of 8th with mates. We're all still learning the rules, some of the guys haven't played before.

 

I'm not really salty, but someones getting a ribbing next game. ;)

Edited August 18, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[Danarc]

Probably Try dominate the psychic phase. 

Never mind.

 

But actually I can't understand why our IC can't cast the normal version of smite. 

[newdigitalGK]

Probably Try dominate the psychic phase. 

Never mind.

 

But actually I can't understand why our IC can't cast the normal version of smite. 

maybe not all th IC's but a select few IE libby (would actually make a better choice then just the +2 to deny)

[Matt_149]

Maybe but any model throwing out d3 or d6 mortal wounds with a +1 on the roll is pretty tough! They would have to be named ones. Playing gk has made me appreciate other psykers more (such as inquisition!) for the killing power of mass smite :)

[Adeptus]

I'm talking about thier smite though.

 

Not catalyst, onslaught or the horror. I think that are thier three powers.

 

4 zoans get to cast 2 smites a turn. For 2d3 mortal wound each or 1d6+1d3.

 

At 160 points, that's not a bad unit.

 

Adeptus, my issue was two Stike squads in Razors.

 

That ment i was 4 units down for deny, and he had more psychers in the table than i did.

 

Strikes in Razors are cool, but ment i lost the psychic phase in that game.

Yeah, keeping squads in transports definitely hurts us. I usually prefer to teleport my strikes in, and use dreadnoughts and interceptors as my 'starts on the table' forces to offset my teleporting units.

[Gentlemanloser]

Yeah something I'm going to try next. :)