Chosen/Possessed in 8th?

[Panzer]

In a vacuum, I would agree that possessed are not pallet-able due to random attacks. But 8th ed seems more about the buffing abilities. Diabolic Strength (+2S +1A) goes a long way in addressing the random attacks issue. 

 

Also, worth pointing out that they are daemons, which could (potentially) bring a host of other benefits when Daemon codex drops. I know its hopeful thinking at this point but it could go a long way to help out our daemonkin units.

 

Already we can run things like Changeling's aura, combined with the Alpha Legion trait on a Tz possessed and it gives the unit a -2 to hit debuff on anything over 12" away (marines suddenly shooting like orks - yes please). Herald aura bumps up the Str. Combined with Diabolic Str gets them up to important that S8 threshold. 

Diabolic Strength affects only a single model, not a whole unit.

Tho you are right about stacking buffs for 8th 40k.

[intel31337]

 

Diabolic Strength affects only a single model, not a whole unit.

Tho you are right about stacking buffs for 8th 40k.

 

LOL my bad. I read that wrong. Thanks for the correction

Edited August 21, 2017 by intel31337

[Gothical]

I'm not saying you have nothing else, but with plasma termies and plasma chosen not on the table, whatever you do have on the table is 400ish points shy of what your opponent has to throw at it, and thats lopsided enough that that rhino is likely to be pretty exposed.

 

With another Terminator unit, it may be protected by being off the board, but you still play the same number of points down in the early turns, and you don't have the Rhino with the threatening squad to force target priority issues - opponent can now target the Rhino with Berzerkers in, or the Predator providing long-ranged fire, whereas before they had to weigh their options and take the consequences.

 

Taking one Teleporting Terminator unit and one Rhino Chosen unit also means it is easier to get to the right targets as you have two mobile platforms, a Sorcerer/Prince can only cast Warptime once per turn and Terminators arrive >9" away (Melta bonus range being 6") - and similar for getting reliable charge ranges.

 

I'm not saying Terminators are bad, or that Chosen are superstars, just that they can be used to far greater effect than in previous editions given how the whole game has changed.

[Plaguecaster]

A five man chosen squad all with combi plasma weapons is 155 pts I can also add an extra heavy or special weapon (maybe las or auto cannon for rule of cool) for a cheap yet decent hitting squad which can be given transport to help them get around quicker. I just wish Death Guard could still take them :( as last edition they were pretty damn right brutal especially when I ran a six man squad with a few plasma, power weapons plus a lascannons alongside a sorcerer.... just hope there is an equilvant in the new DG codex..... so glad I can still have possessed though Edited August 22, 2017 by Plaguecaster

[the jeske]

havocks do the weapon squad better.

 

I'm not saying Terminators are bad, or that Chosen are superstars, just that they can be used to far greater effect than in previous editions given how the whole game has changed.

 

Can the rhino with chosen engage units no matter what turn1, be it through shoting or melee ? Can the dude move and hope out of the rhino and do something in the same turn ? no? then the game for the chosen has not changed. And this is before we go in to the whole chosen they like normal csm[aka the bad units in our codex...again], but cost a lot more.

 

Plus a unit of terminators can work alone. It doesn't have to worry what happens, if shoting, terrain or some other rule stops them from using the rhino to full efficiency. AND on top of all that [being more resilient, shotier, better in melee etc] terminators do shoting and melee at the same time without much of the units efficiency. A unit of plasma chosen can do many things, but melee is not one of those things.

[Plaguecaster]

^^^^^

Not special weapons especially since you can get six plasma guns or flamers in one chosen squad,

[Panzer]

^^^^^

Not special weapons especially since you can get six plasma guns or flamers in one chosen squad,

Yeah but you can take two Havoc squads to get more plasma guns or flamers which also helps fill battalion or brigade detachments.

They are cheaper for the same firepower. Unless you aim for a unit with exactly 6 special/heavy weapons Havocs are simply the better choice.

Edited August 22, 2017 by sfPanzer

[Plaguecaster]

^^^^^

Your opinion mate and I heavily disagree as I believe if you are taking special weapons on havocs it's a complete waste since Chosen do the same job so I can use my heavy slots for more valuable choices with access to proper long range weapons, if your pretty damn set on fulfilling a battalion tax you might as well just take them without special or heavy weapons as good luck fitting a decent battalion into games under 2k, not everyone is CP hungry ;)

 

I only said they do special weapons better than havocs since they can get more into the squad than havocs if your taking two squads it kind of the lessens the point when you only wanted one

Edited August 22, 2017 by Plaguecaster

[Panzer]

How can you say taking special weapons on a 13ppm unit is wasted but it's perfectly fine on a 17ppm unit when the 17ppm unit has nothing that makes them better at shooting compared to the other?

Sure you could take heavy weapons but that wasn't the point. The point was who would be better when you want/need special weapons and the answer is Havocs because they do the same thing for less points.

Also saving slots really is no argument in 8th edition anymore. If anything using more slots is better since it allows you to get more detachments and thus more CP.

 

And yes I agreed that Chosen do the Special weapon squad better...if you aim for a unit size of 6 models just because Havocs can't take a 6th guy with special weapon. Tho that means you literally pay 37 points for the novelty of having a 6h special weapon in that unit (5x the difference between Havocs and Chosen + the additional Chosen). At 5/10/15/etc. models Havocs are without question the better shooty unit.

This has literally nothing to do with opinion.

[Zodd1888]

Chosen of Chaos: As veterans of the 10,000 year war and preferred children of the dark gods Chosen may reroll a single to hit roll and save per turn per unit.

 

Would be decent and mean you'd need less support for them.

 

Either way they beed something!

[adreal]

I like chosen, I really do, but point for point havocs do it better.

 

Yes you could use havocs for heavy weapons, but seeing as you can just take a spearhead detachment for all your heavy support needs, why limit yourself??

 

I like the idea of chosen, and when Alpha Legion could use them as troops, I did, and I was hoping in the codex I could use them as troops again, but seeing as I can't, I'll save 3 points per model (that adds up) and run two plasma havoc squads supported by a lord and 2 sorcerers, that I can afford as I am saving points not using chosen. It's a shame but yeah, unless chosen get something (infiltrate special rule like in 4th, body guard special rule like in 3.5, extra wound, death to the false emperor type rule against everything) they are just a fancy unit that I'll use in narrative play.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Also saving slots really is no argument in 8th edition anymore. If anything using more slots is better since it allows you to get more detachments and thus more CP.

 

I don't entirely agree with that statement. Yes ideally you want as many detachments as possible in 8th, but that doesn't mean you you're heavy support slots are just wide open for taking anything now and there are still plenty of choices competing for the heavy slot. Yes it's a lot easier than 7th to get more heavy support, but it's not entirely gone as a valuable slot you want to save for your heaviest guns.

 

That being said basically the only reason I see to take chosen over havocs is if you're playing with just say one battalion detachment and you want to save your heavy slots. Elite is a little less busy, really only need terminators. One thing I do want to try though with chosen is 5 flamers plus a champion with a combi flamer, maybe a full sized squad as well. Use them as horde removal as with the extra attack they'll be better at charging anything left over from the flamer hits than havocs. Granted not the best use but still an idea to try.

[Panzer]

 

Also saving slots really is no argument in 8th edition anymore. If anything using more slots is better since it allows you to get more detachments and thus more CP.

I don't entirely agree with that statement. Yes ideally you want as many detachments as possible in 8th, but that doesn't mean you you're heavy support slots are just wide open for taking anything now and there are still plenty of choices competing for the heavy slot. Yes it's a lot easier than 7th to get more heavy support, but it's not entirely gone as a valuable slot you want to save for your heaviest guns.

 

That being said basically the only reason I see to take chosen over havocs is if you're playing with just say one battalion detachment and you want to save your heavy slots. Elite is a little less busy, really only need terminators. One thing I do want to try though with chosen is 5 flamers plus a champion with a combi flamer, maybe a full sized squad as well. Use them as horde removal as with the extra attack they'll be better at charging anything left over from the flamer hits than havocs. Granted not the best use but still an idea to try.

 

Eh, that really is not an issue.

You don't have enough HS slots in your Battalion detachment? That means you have 4+ HS units. Take a Spearhead Detachment and take them there instead. You shouldn't need more than 9 HS slots in any normal sized army (Battalion and Spearhead combined) and taking a barebones Chaos Lord for the required HQ slot shouldn't be an issue either if you really have to do so.

[Cryptix]

There's alst the fact thate even in a battalion, there are 6 elites and only 3 HS....

[Bluthusten]

What about:

 

Battalion Detachement (all Tzeentch)

 

Sorc with Jumppack, Axe

Dark Apostle, Black mace

 

3x10 Brimmstones

 

1x20 Possessed

 

 

1 Chaos Supreme Comand Detachement:

 

Changeling

Herold of Tzeentch on disc

Fabius Bile

 

Its 1023 Points :)

 

You can give them "Boon of change" and a 4++. Alpha Legion + Changeling gives the enemy -2 to hit.

 

Herold spends +1str and all Fabius buffs are useful on them :D

 

 

Maybe not that competitive, but looks great and Fabius is a cool dude

[Plaguecaster]

^^^^

Can't have brimstones as troops in the dettachment otherwise you lose all benifits as it has to be all Alpha legion / herecticus Astartes to gain the traits, strategems etc in a dettachment so none of your Possesesd will actually benefit from the alpha legion trait

Edited August 23, 2017 by Plaguecaster

[Bluthusten]

Well then 3x10 Cultists :D

[Gabocius]

What about:

 

Battalion Detachement (all Tzeentch)

 

Sorc with Jumppack, Axe

Dark Apostle, Black mace

 

3x10 Brimmstones

 

1x20 Possessed

 

 

1 Chaos Supreme Comand Detachement:

 

Changeling

Herold of Tzeentch on disc

Fabius Bile

 

Its 1023 Points

 

You can give them "Boon of change" and a 4++. Alpha Legion + Changeling gives the enemy -2 to hit.

 

Herold spends +1str and all Fabius buffs are useful on them

 

 

Maybe not that competitive, but looks great and Fabius is a cool dude

 

Very nice ! I was also thinking of an army based on a full size possessed squad.

 

Nothing to change on your list actuelly, just switch HQ and possessed so the batallion will be a full demon detachement, and the suprem command will be a full AL detachement (I remember they get an elite slot to spend).

[techsoldaten]

Something that may be overlooked in this thead is the fact Possessed can be summoned. Put aside enough reinforcement points and bring them on the board to amplify an assault.

 

The list I currently play has 2 squads of Khorne Berzerkers dropping in with a Kharbdis Assault Claw (and getting the charge thanks to 2 Terminator Sorcerers buffing them with Warptime.) I see Possessed as a means of flow control, something that keeps the KAC / Berzerkers from being charged the turn after they arrive. Horrors / Bloodletters might be a little more points efficient, but I like the improved saves and multiple wounds.

[Panzer]

Something that may be overlooked in this thead is the fact Possessed can be summoned. Put aside enough reinforcement points and bring them on the board to amplify an assault.

 

The list I currently play has 2 squads of Khorne Berzerkers dropping in with a Kharbdis Assault Claw (and getting the charge thanks to 2 Terminator Sorcerers buffing them with Warptime.) I see Possessed as a means of flow control, something that keeps the KAC / Berzerkers from being charged the turn after they arrive. Horrors / Bloodletters might be a little more points efficient, but I like the improved saves and multiple wounds.

They can't be summoned tho. They lack the special rule to get summoned.

[techsoldaten]

 

Something that may be overlooked in this thead is the fact Possessed can be summoned. Put aside enough reinforcement points and bring them on the board to amplify an assault.

 

The list I currently play has 2 squads of Khorne Berzerkers dropping in with a Kharbdis Assault Claw (and getting the charge thanks to 2 Terminator Sorcerers buffing them with Warptime.) I see Possessed as a means of flow control, something that keeps the KAC / Berzerkers from being charged the turn after they arrive. Horrors / Bloodletters might be a little more points efficient, but I like the improved saves and multiple wounds.

They can't be summoned tho. They lack the special rule to get summoned.

 

D'oh. Thought it was anything with Daemon keyword. Just re-read the rules.

 

I take back what I said.

[intel31337]

What about:

 

Battalion Detachement (all Tzeentch)

 

Sorc with Jumppack, Axe

Dark Apostle, Black mace

 

3x10 Brimmstones

 

1x20 Possessed

 

 

1 Chaos Supreme Comand Detachement:

 

Changeling

Herold of Tzeentch on disc

Fabius Bile

 

Its 1023 Points

 

You can give them "Boon of change" and a 4++. Alpha Legion + Changeling gives the enemy -2 to hit.

 

Herold spends +1str and all Fabius buffs are useful on them

 

 

Maybe not that competitive, but looks great and Fabius is a cool dude

 

Note that a Sorc on disc makes him a daemon as well, so he can also benefit from the Changeling's aura.

[Mekhitar]

I haven't found a good use for chosen either... I run 5x havocs with plasma in a rhino (usually with another 5 man, such as zerks), and 10x possessed in a second rhino. One or two distractions - like a flail defiler, a drake, or a pair of brutes - means I don't have trouble delivering the rhinos to CC. Doubly so if I land first turn, in which case they, and the defiler, move+adv+smoke.

 

My experience with rhinos is no one wants to shoot them once the first turn is ended, because they are not killy; they just boot around the table eating overwatch, chasing land raiders/preds/dev teams, and blocking LOS.

 

I don't classically run termies (I have a few that show up every 4th or 5th game), and while I love chosen and have them, I just can't find a good reason to field them over havocs. =/

[Bluthusten]

A question to possessed: what has changed with the new box? Just the base size? Or are these whole new models?

[Trevak Dal]

Yeah chosen are just don't offer me anything I want or need and don't give me any options on the table. They are jacked CTacs with a jacked price. They can have lots of power weapons or specials...but with infinite combis our terminators do this better.

 

If you could give them all weapons upgrades I'd be interested. Then again our havocs should be able to take all specials or heavies.