Plague Marine Loadouts

[TheMelancholic]

Given all the new options that our favourite walking carbuncles get (and the fact that they'll be getting their own plastic kit sometime in the near future), I'd like to hear your input on what you think are some of the better loadouts they can get.

 

I'll start of the discussion by doing a quick personal analysis of the unit and their options.

 

Plague Marine Pros:

• Cheaper than they were in 7th edition
• Changes to wounding can help them out (need strength 10 to wound them on 2+ now)
• Can take 2 special weapons at any squad size
• Champion can take a plasma gun
• Have access to some nifty unique special weapons (Blight Launchers, Plague Belchers/Spewers)
• Can be outfitted for melee using some interesting choices
• Come stock with plague knives and blight grenades

Plague Marine Cons:

• Still more expensive than other cult units
• Changes to wounding can hinder them too (strength 3 is just as likely to wound as strength 4 now)
• Disgustingly Resilient is vulnerable to multi-wound attacks (you roll the save for each point of damage taken, unlike other saves)
• Slightly slower movement than average
• Probably still outperformed in melee by Khorne Bezerkers
• Plague knives are worse than they were in 7th edition
• Only one base attack (unless you took a melee weapon)

 

Now a quick bit on each of their ranged options:

• Plasma Gun: Solid and dependable. Notably it can be taken by the champion which allows for three of the things in a minimum squad. A great all-rounder choice.
• Plasma Pistol: Champ only. If he's heading into melee it might be an okay choice. If not, stick to the plasma gun.
• Bolt Pistol: Also champ only. If you want a pistol, take the above option instead.
• Blight Launchers: Makes Primaris cry. Seriously good, with a solid 6 strength, D3 damage and -2AP...let alone re-rolling 1s to wound. To cap it all off it's an assault weapon, meaning that you can advance and shoot, giving your dudes a surprisingly large threat range. Take two for a mobile fireteam, capable of threatening just about anything.
• Meltagun: Not the best choice to be honest. I prefer taking my melta guns on a unit like chosen or havocs where you can fit more in and use VotLW to roast some vehicles. Still, with split fire for everyone they aren't nearly as bad a choice as they would have been last edition.
• Plague Belcher: A buffed up regular flamer. The offensive, flexible choice when compared with its bigger brother (see below). Assault means you can advance and fire with impunity and an extra inch of range (9" compared to the 8" of the regular flamer) means you'll be getting overwatch on any deepstrikers that make their charges. Also gets re-rolls of 1 to wound.
• Plague Spewer. A buffed up heavy flamer. The defensive choice, less mobile but more killy. Alternatively you could argue that this is what you want on your assault units, since you weren't advancing anyway. Also gets the extra inch of range and re-rolls of 1s to wound.

Melee Options:

• Bubotic Axe: Flat upgrade to the power axe and can be taken by any number of your guys! (In exchange for their bolters, so no shooting for you). Re-rolls ones to wound and does power axe things. Also gives your guys a second attack. Solid.
• Mace of Contagion: Can only be taken by two guys per squad and MUST be taken with a Bubotic Axe. A big ol power maul that re-rolls ones to wound and does a flat 3(!!) damage. Gives your guys an extra attack when taken with the axe (which you have to do anyway).
• Great Plague Cleaver: Chop him! In all seriousness, not that good. It's pretty much a power fist with re-rolls of one to wound. That would be pretty cool, but it doesn't give you the +1 attack. Can only have two per squad (separate from the two Maces of Contagion you are allowed). Up to you if it's worth it having a single big attack that will miss half the time. My advice? Leave the power-fisting to your champion.
• Plague Flail: What you will be taking over the Plague Cleaver. Actually a solid choice. You get D3 attacks with it (instead of the one your guy would normally make) and extra damage carries over to other models. Has the strengths of both the power axe and power maul, with +2 Strength and -2AP. Does a flat two damage and re-rolls ones to wound. You can only take two sadly. Also no -1 to hit, unlike the cleaver.
• Plague Knife: Everyone gets one by default. A dirty prison shiv that allows you to re-roll 1s to wound. Allows your shooty guys to contribute to melee. Also, anyone can swap their bolter for a second one, giving you +1 attack. The only reason you'd ever do this is if you can't find the points to swap the bolter for the straight-up better Bubotic Axe which also gives +1 attack.
• Plague Sword: Your champ can swap his plague knife for this. For one point it's a flat upgrade, allowing re-rolls for all wounds rather than just 1s. Coolio...but you'll probably never feel the need to use it because he can also take a...
• Power fist: Interestingly the champion doesn't need to swap anything for this. He can just take one. This means your squad leader can be running around with a powerfist, plague sword and plasma-gun all at the same time. It goes without saying that using the power fist is better than using the plague sword in 99% of cases (that 1% being gretchin). I'd just skip the sword to be honest and take this instead.

 

Potential squad load-outs:

 

The All Rounders: A mixed squad, capable of fighting in assaults as well as range.

• Champ with plasma gun and power fist
• 2x Plague Marines with plasma guns
• 2x Plague Marines with bolters
• 2x Plague Marines with bubotic axes

The Assault Team: The guys you want in melee. Might need a rhino.

• Champ with power fist and plasma pistol
• 2x Plague Marines with plague spewers
• 2x Plague Marines with Bubotic Axes and Maces of Contagion
• 2x Plague Marines with Plague Flails

The Shooty Firebase: Advance and shoot first turn, sit tight and keep shooting the second. Should wrack up a nice number of kills throughout the battle.

• Champ with plasma gun (maybe also a powerfist)
• 2x Plague Marines with Blight-Launchers
• 4x Plague Marines with Bolters

 

 

Thoughts?

Edited August 20, 2017 by TheMelancholic

[Arkhanist]

 

• Plague Belcher: A buffed up regular flamer. The offensive, flexible choice when compared with its bigger brother (see below). Assault means you can advance and fire with impunity and an extra inch of range (9" compared to the 8" of the regular flamer) means you'll be getting overwatch on any deepstrikers that make their charges. Also gets re-rolls of 1 to wound.

 

Just a quick note; it still won't work on deep strike chargers as they must deploy greater than 9" away - even at 9.001", they'll be out of range at the start of the charge. That extra inch is helpful generally though.

 

Props for 7 man squads though

 

I think they're getting the melee options as that's going to be in the kit for the DG codex, and DG may well lack many other melee options. That said, they're surprisingly killy in melee, the flails in particular. Can't wait to try em out!

Edited August 20, 2017 by Arkhanist

[Mister Feral]

I'm still building my Dark Imperium Plague Marine squad, but now with all these new options - I'm still debating which ones to take! I've locked down two Blight Launchers for my current 7-man squad, thats for sure.

 

I think I'll need to see miniatures of the new weapons so I can decide which other ones I can convert up.

[Gothical]

I seem to recall that when the Dark Imperium stuff came out the Blight Launcher was mathematically better than the Plasma Gun (not sure if it took Overcharging into account).

 

The first three models I would take would be Champ with Plasma Gun and Power Fist (Plague Sword optional) and 2x Blight Launchers.

 

Next I would seriously consider a pair of Flails of Corruption, as the increase to D3 attacks, D2 and having that damage roll over is really potent. It is also a fairly reasonable anti-vehicle weapon thanks to the Strength and AP.

 

I am not a fan of the Mace of Corruption or the Great Plague Cleaver as they force -1 To Hit. The Mace is certainly the better option as it grants an extra attack, meaning you are at least going to get one solid hit per model on average (which is my logic for favouring the Power Fist on the Champion). Therefore consider the Mace if you think the Plague Marines are likely to end up facing vehicles, either aggressively (Rhino-delivered into the back lines after Predators etc.) or defensively (stop those Dreadnought-types).

 

The Bubotic Axe has a reasonable stat-line and could find a place in the aforementioned aggressive Plague squad. However, given their slow movement (and lack of 2+/5++/W2 compared to equally-slow Terminators) I would prefer to keep the other models with Bolters, get the unit into cover with Miasma of Pestilence cast on it, and generally be an annoying, hard-to-remove firebase. The Grandfather's Blessings Stratagem only adds to the annoyance factor. 

 

So for me, my ideal squad is currently:

 

Plague Champion with Plasma Gun, Power Fist and Plague Knife/Sword

2x Plague Marines with Blight Launchers and Plague Knives

2x Plague Marines with Flails of Corruption and Plague Knives

2x Plague Marines with Boltguns and Plague Knives

206/207 points.

[MoGuy]

Currently I only have ten Plague Marines (Dark Imperium + Easy to build dudes) so I run mine as 2x5 guys. Plasma-Champ and 2x Blight Launchers, delivered via Rhino. 

 

You can really help out your army  even before the game starts. When placing objectives, try to get some into a cover piece that would give your PM a good firebase. They'll be really hard to shift.

 

Also position some objectives in the open in the mid-field. This is perfect for our Poxwalkers since they can just swarm the objective and it forces your opponent to advance towards the middle so our zombies don't have to run all the way into their deployment zone.

[Bluthusten]

Im gonna play a fully melee unit in my Black Legion. Next to Berserkers.

 

7 Marines, 2 Flails, 4 Axe/Knife and Champ with fist. In a Rhino with a Nurgle Sorcerer for Presience/Miasma :)

 

Next to them: 9 Berserker with Axe/Sword + Champ (Murdersword) in a 2nd Rhino.

 

2 Beatsticks to build my army around. Do you think it works? :)

[Panzer]

Im gonna play a fully melee unit in my Black Legion. Next to Berserkers.

 

7 Marines, 2 Flails, 4 Axe/Knife and Champ with fist. In a Rhino with a Nurgle Sorcerer for Presience/Miasma

 

Next to them: 9 Berserker with Axe/Sword + Champ (Murdersword) in a 2nd Rhino.

 

2 Beatsticks to build my army around. Do you think it works?

Sounds solid, but expensive.

Now you just need some ranged support (ideally Slaanesh for the Stratagem) and some cheap mass like Cultists or regular Bolter CSM to capture objectives and deny reserves in a wider area.

[Bluthusten]

3x 10 Cultists (Battalion)

 

5 Slaanesh Havocs with 4 Lascanon

 

5 Slaanesh Havocs with 4 Autocanons

 

 

For some early pressure and catching fire for the Rhinos:

 

Abaddon

5 Terminators

3 Obliterators

 

Exactly 1500 Points :D

 

But enough talk about my list. I'm exited to field pure melee Plague Marines.

 

Does Demonic Strength work on a single model in a Squad?

 

So we can cast it on a Flail-Guy and he now wield 2d3 attacks with str 8 :O

[Closet Skeleton]

Great Plague cleaver feels a lot like the assault marine evicerator option which people told me was good despite me having the same complaints. The difference is that the evicerator doesn't have competitors.

 

I'm thinking of;

 

7 Plague marines, power fist and plasma pistol sergeant, 2 plague spewers, 2 flails, 2 axes

Rhino, havok launcher, combi-flamer

 

7 Plague marines, plasma gun and plague sword sergeant, 2 blight launchers, 4 bolt guns

Rhino, havok launcher, combi-melta

 

7 plague marines, plasma gun and power fist sergeant, 2 plasma guns, 4 bolt guns

Rhino, havok launcher, combi-melta

 

But I'll have to wait on the codex and see what I can fit in alongside Mortarion, a sorcerer, 21 plague marines and 14 terminators (I'm guessing not a lot but still holding out for 3 rhinos, 2 heralds of nurgle and 9 bases of nurglings).

Edited August 22, 2017 by Closet Skeleton

[TheMelancholic]

Im gonna play a fully melee unit in my Black Legion. Next to Berserkers.

 

7 Marines, 2 Flails, 4 Axe/Knife and Champ with fist. In a Rhino with a Nurgle Sorcerer for Presience/Miasma

 

Next to them: 9 Berserker with Axe/Sword + Champ (Murdersword) in a 2nd Rhino.

 

2 Beatsticks to build my army around. Do you think it works?

 

Honestly Zerkers are better if you are looking for a melee beat-stick and a beat-stick only. Nothing can really compete with the raw damage output of a Chainaxe/Chainsword Zerker. They have, what, six attacks per guy with BftBG?

 

No, where Plague Marines have the edge is in flexibility and durability.

 

Plague have a niche as a short range firebase, packing many special (and exotic) weapons on a durable firebase. Zerkers are just as tough as a regular marine (so not that tough at all) and have basically no shooting to speak of.

 

That said, a Plague Marine squad outfitted for melee has some things going for it too:

• Higher quality attacks, if at a lower quantity. Zerkers hit four times at strength 6 Ap-1 and twice at Strength 5 Ap_ with BftBG. Comparatively a Plague Marine with a Bubotic Axe will attack just twice, but at strength 5 Ap-2 re-rolling ones to wound. As a rule, Plague Marine attacks are more likely to punch through armour and inflict damage to begin with.
• Higher damage attacks in melee. Following on from the point above, several Plague Marine weapons (Mace, Flail and Cleaver) have a penchant for inflicting multiple wounds. Against multi-wound targets like Terminators or Primaris, this can be a massive help and is definitely something to keep in mind.
• Can mix in ranged weapons. Zerkers are a one trick pony. Plagues are not. Even if you want to run an assault team, you can always slap some plasma guns or plague spewers on and call it a day. This gives you versatile squad, one that can be a threat at range and up close.
• Plague Marines are tougher. Don't forget this, ever. All of the above assumes that the Zerkers get to attack at all, which may not happen if a dedicated CC unit with the damage output to kill (or severely cripple) them gets the first swing in. If I'm charging and hitting first, then Zerkers are better, hands down. If I'm being charged or if the enemy has some special rule to hit first (Slannesh Daemons, Howling Banshees e.c.t.) then I'll take the Plague Marines thanks. Nurgle holds the line, Khorne breaks through. Neither of them are better or worse per se but they have different uses.

 

Also Zerker champ cannot take relics btw, he doesn't have the character keyword. He's just some shmuck with an extra attack and a different wargear list. Aside from that, your Plague marine squad is almost exactly what I'd run. 2x Spewers, 2x Flails are almost mandatory imo, as is fist on the Sarge. Maces+Axe is a flat upgrade to Axe+Knife, but obviously costs more points. Up to you if you think it's worth it, but I'd certainly consider them. They could help beat down some Primaris Chumps and light vehicles with their flat 3 damage.

[TheMelancholic]

Great Plague cleaver feels a lot like the assault marine evicerator option which people told me was good despite me having the same complaints. The difference is that the evicerator doesn't have competitors.

 

 

Exactly. Plague Cleaver could be worth considering if you didn't have to trade the Flail for it. The fact that it's one or the other puts them in direct competition and the Cleaver simply cannot win out.

 

A quick comparison:

• Cleaver is -1 to hit. Flail is not.
• Cleaver gives no bonus attack. Flail gives d3 attacks (essentially).
• Cleaver does randumb d6 damage against a single target, with excess damage being wasted. Flail is one of the few (possibly the only, I don't know what other armies get) weapons that actually spreads excess damage to other models. That's right, you can kill two tacticals with one unsaved wound.
• Both get re-rolls of one to wound.

Granted, the cleaver has some big advantages (namely strength 8 AP -3) but again, this is single target damage. Unless I'm fighting tanks and monsters all the time I'd much rather take the Flail. Besides, if your champ is taking a fist (and he should) you've already got a strength 8 punch in the squad if needed.

 

If you need to kill tanks and monsters, take slanneshi lashavocs.

[ChainMachete]

Real shame the champion can't take a combi-weapon anymore. I've still got a few old Plague Marine squads from years ago and all the champions were equipped with power fist and either combi-plasma or combi-melta. Looks like I need to reconvert my old models if I want to use them.

[Cryptix]

I'd wait on that, the DG Codex might have something new for them, unless you meant in another legion.

[Bluthusten]

wow @TheMelancholic, great Review. After you post I looked up to the "Spewers" and saw that they're range 9" so you can't outrange them with a 8,1" charge :D i think I'm gonna try them out. But 19pts is pretty expensive, isn't it?

 

Tomorrow I've a game with my melee Plague Marines. So let's see what they can do :D

[Gothical]

Although I wouldn't advise using Plague Marines in an assault role, that is in the context of Codex: Chaos Space Marines. In a CSM army Bikers, Raptors, Terminators, Khorne Berzerkers and even Noise Marines (and arguably Chosen) are better assault units.

 

When Codex: Death Guard drops, unless there are some real surprises in terms of models, Plague Marines will be the only melee unit that can viably ride in a Rhino (there are rumours the Plague Crawler has transport capacity, but looking at the model I doubt it). In that case, the option to take Bubotic Axes is extremely appealing, as outlined by TheMelancholic above.

[MoGuy]

 

 

When Codex: Death Guard drops, unless there are some real surprises in terms of models, Plague Marines will be the only melee unit that can viably ride in a Rhino

 

True but I hope that the Deathshroud Termis will be absolutely brutal in melee. Would be a shame if the Deathshroud would only get 2 attacks per model (unless they can make dmg carry over with a special rule).

[Jofus]

Real shame the champion can't take a combi-weapon anymore. I've still got a few old Plague Marine squads from years ago and all the champions were equipped with power fist and either combi-plasma or combi-melta. Looks like I need to reconvert my old models if I want to use them.

Unless you don't plan on getting the new larger plague marines, you could use your current ones as regular or chosen chaos space marines.  Right now I don't know if Death Guard will be getting either of those options, but if you are just going for a Nurgle force there should be no problem.

[Bluthusten]

Although I wouldn't advise using Plague Marines in an assault role, that is in the context of Codex: Chaos Space Marines. In a CSM army Bikers, Raptors, Terminators, Khorne Berzerkers and even Noise Marines (and arguably Chosen) are better assault units.

 

When Codex: Death Guard drops, unless there are some real surprises in terms of models, Plague Marines will be the only melee unit that can viably ride in a Rhino (there are rumours the Plague Crawler has transport capacity, but looking at the model I doubt it). In that case, the option to take Bubotic Axes is extremely appealing, as outlined by TheMelancholic above.

But why not? With 2 attacks each, rerollig 1's to wound and 2 flails (d3 attacks rerolling 1's to wound) and some Sorcerer support (prescience / Miasma) they dish out good damage and pretty tough.

 

7 of them (cause Nurgle) with 2 flails, 5 axe/knife + Sorcerer and Rhino costs 365 Points. Once in the heart of the enemy army, the enemy have to handle them. And for 2 CP's you can get 1 guy back :D

[Plaguecaster]

Just a shame the champion can't have access to the new weapons as a champ with the flail or even just an axe would be pretty awesome

[Gothical]

 

But why not? With 2 attacks each, rerollig 1's to wound and 2 flails (d3 attacks rerolling 1's to wound) and some Sorcerer support (prescience / Miasma) they dish out good damage and pretty tough.

 

7 of them (cause Nurgle) with 2 flails, 5 axe/knife + Sorcerer and Rhino costs 365 Points. Once in the heart of the enemy army, the enemy have to handle them. And for 2 CP's you can get 1 guy back

 

 

For 335 points you can take 8 Berzerkers (Champ w/ Plasma Pistol & Power Fist, 2 Plasma Pistols & 7 Chainaxes), an Exalted Champion (Plasma Pistol, Axe of Blind Fury) in a Rhino (2 Combi-Bolters, Havoc Launcher).

 

They are nowhere near as durable as the Plague Marines plus Sorcerer, but they will slaughter their way through the opponent's army with the potential for the Berzerkers to pile in, fight and consolidate 3 times in a single turn or the Exalted to do so twice - and they all re-roll To Wound in melee if one model is within the Exalted's aura.

 

On their own they are a pretty solid melee unit, and I imagine that once they're paired up with Deathshroud-type Terminators, buffs from Mortarion/Tallyman, and all the rest of it they will be great for forcing target priority havoc on the opponent - they just don't fit a melee niche that well in the main Codex.