Blood Angels sternguard vets ?

[Tonius]

There has been a very interserting topic on how to equip Vanguard and the comparison with Termies and company vets..

It lead me to order a vanguard vet squad (that I'll equip with TH/SS) and made me think about sternguard vets.

 

Codex SM do speak a bit about them in a few topics, but I wanted to know how did Blood angels players felt about them ?

Their special issue boltgun is quite nice: 30" and AP2 and we can kit them with combi weapons (but doing that we loose the SIB stats).

 

I think of deploying a squad with only their SIB and a heavy bolter, acting as a anti infantry unit, able to shoot far away and more effectively (AP2) than the others and for only 110pts.

 

Do you guys use them ?  What role/equipment do you give them ?

[Brother Captain Sirus]

I was thinking of adding some to my Ultramarines with the same load out, 4 SIB and heavy bolter, as it seems like a good set up. Would be good to here if others have had succes with this load out.

[sebs_evo7]

I run a squad in a razorback with assault cannons. Sgt with combi plasma, 4 with SIBs and 1 with grav cannon, The setup is purely because it's what i have painted.

I'll probably paint up a sgt with just a SIB and maybe a power weapon.

I have had good success with using the unit to pick on both MEQ and TEQ

The combi plas i found by itself isn't worth it

I usually run them around doing tactical squad things but this might change with the new obsec

I'm thinking i might add another squad in an assback with a cheap captain

[Pendent]

I really like Sternguard in concept but to me they seem expensive  given how deadly shooting is this edition. Combi-weapons very nearly double the cost of what is still a 1W 3+ model, and if you just leave them with the special issue boltguns then you lose out on a ton of points efficiency compared to Intercessors- for basically the same cost you gain +1 ap have literally 50% as many wounds and don't even get to take a troop slot.

 

All this being said I do really want to paint up all my old Tac marines as Sternguard though. My thought is that any of the old marines would definitely be a veteran after surviving the Tyranids on Baal.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Pendent

[Tonius]

I really like Sternguard in concept but to me they seem expensive  given how deadly shooting is this edition. Combi-weapons very nearly double the cost of what is still a 1W 3+ model, and if you just leave them with the special issue boltguns then you lose out on a ton of points efficiency compared to Intercessors- for basically the same cost you gain +1 ap have literally 50% as many wounds and don't even get to take a troop slot.

That's not a solution for me as I'm not a primaris fan, at all.

 

The SIB is not that bad, and I really hesitate to replace them by combi weapons. I give those to my tactical sergeants.

Termies drop to 4+ facing SIB, pretty nasty.

[Riot Earp]

Id love to field my sternguard also. I was thinking of 10 in a droppod with one hf and maybe an claw on the searge.

[bc99]

I'm interested in fielding some Sternguard. I just don't' know if they can weather any sort of target priority. It seems to me they would be a top target. I guess getting them into some cover would be really nice, but still. Does anybody have any actual BA experience with them, and how they synergize with the rest of the army?

[sebs_evo7]

In my list i run two assbacks with dante. Sternguard in one, dc in the other.

These guys usually just go up the board and engage the enemy. The dc jump out and charge things. The sternguard hang back a little and shoot down whatever is coming to threaten this little formation. With dantes re rolls you can usually force enough wounds through to make the -2ap count

[Tonius]

You run them without special/heavy weapon ?

[sebs_evo7]

Last edition combi meltas but this edition just standard bolters and one dude with a grav cannon

[Riot Earp]

So you run 5 or 6 men squads in that assbacks?

[Indefragable]

For me, they are better Tacticals. So they're best use is to do what Tacticals do, but better.

 

Wait...Tacticals are usually there to soak up fire and die...

 

Well, I guess they will soak up more fire based on their cost (and their fancy hats helmets).

 

More to the point, I don't see a reason to take them this edition unless you use their Special Issue Bolters. And in that case, you want them dancing around at that 30" range picking on weak targets like MEQ/GEQ. I think there's two ways to really use them:

 

1) midline OBJ holders where their 30" range gets the most mileage across the board. Just prepare for them to die quickly if the enemy actually wants them dead.

2) Self-reliant unit off on a flank. Trick here is to take down cheap Scouts, Cultists, lone Guardsmen squads, Guardians, etc... by harassing them at range.

[Crimson Ghost IX]

I looked at them for 8th and have yet to use them.

I was thinking SIB and heavy flamer (for overwatch) and/or Lascannon/Rokkit to use as an additional infantry screen for a gunline army I was building.

They are a neat hybrid of buffed tacticals and devastators that are kinda choppy.

I still like the idea but...

 

I went back to using the points for cheaper tacticals instead in that list build, because command points are gonna be a thing and I wanted a couple more troops for dual battalion.

Lost the SIB (and an attack) but kept a heavy weapon and gained 2CP for future shenanigans...

 

Anyhow,

I think you can make some fantastic sternguard models from the BA tactical box set.

Our models are so frigging great =)

[durdle-durdle]

I usually bring a drop pod of 10 sternies with special bolters in each game. With the 30" range it usually works out to where I can park them in cover and still be in rapid fire range. A termite captain deep strikes in close by with a company vet squad of plasma guns and they usually clear the opponents back field for me, or blow a huge hole in the enemies flank. They're not going to destroy the enemy army singlehandedly, but they will delete units of meq's or worse fairly easily. Unfortunately if you like sternies, basic marines codex does them much better. Fist sternies with a storm of fire chapter master captain for -2 ap (-3 when you roll a 6), rerolling, ignoring cover, potentially doing bolter drill to make more shots when you roll 6's, potentially getting a flat +1 to wound. It gets silly quick.

 

But that's not blood angels.

Edited August 21, 2017 by durdle-durdle

[Brother apocalyptic]

7 sternguards (nothing special) in a stormraven. Raven equipped for antivehicle duty.

 

Zoom raven to where it needs the sternguards to be, blast whatever is a juicy target. Turn 2, drop the SG and let the guns do the talking...

[Silas7]

All this being said I do really want to paint up all my old Tac marines as Sternguard though. My thought is that any of the old marines would definitely be a veteran after surviving the Tyranids on Baal.

Welcome to the legacy of Rynn's world.

[Helias_Tancred]

I have two squads of 10 sternguard each.

 

The first squad I refitted to 8 special issue boltguns (incl. the Sergeant) and 2 heavy bolters. They are my anti-infantry squad. The second is equipped with 6 combi-meltas, and 4 special issue bolt guns, and they are primarily tasked with what you'd use those combi-meltas against.

 

So far, each squad has their particular purpose. I'm happy with how they've performed. The squad with the 6 combi-meltas are still more versatile imo.

[Brother_Mike]

I've been using my sternguard in 8th edition with an even mix of combi-plasmas and special issue boltguns with great success.

 

The sort of army I play in 8th edition is what I was once my Archangels Demi-Company from 7th edition. So I have lots of elite units such as terminators, dreadnoughts, sanguinary guard, etc. So taking them in that sort of list puts them in the role of tactical squad with shooting that matters. I set them up on the board without a transport or anything. My more expensive units soak up the shots while they output some high strength shots and clear out objectives, my backfield, etc of outflanking units looking to score objectives or get linebreaker. And so far, the fragile outflanking units that make it past my elite units fold pretty fast to massed bolter & plasma fire. And if it comes to it, close combat with their veteran statline. Additionally, I can use them to fill out my vanguard detachments.

 

The role they fell into with the list I play my seem unusual since we are so used to transporting them to the absolute front to maximize their damage potential, but this is 8th baby. Anything goes

Edited August 22, 2017 by Brother_Mike

[tychobi]

Stern are rad.  Big dakka.  This ed made their bolters too good so combi/heavy just seems a waste.  I used them heavily in 8th from drop pods but can not stomach 100+pt drop pods so have used em a couple of times in razorbacks with mixed results.  Savvy enemies will target them heavily as they hit very hard and are no more difficult to dislodge from cover than a regular marine.

[Karhedron]

I think you can make some fantastic sternguard models from the BA tactical box set.

 

I agree. All my Tactical squads are just vanilla Marines as the bulk of my infantry dates from 3rd Ed. The BA tacticals are very blingy by comparison and would make great Sternguard.

 

 

I really like Sternguard in concept but to me they seem expensive  given how deadly shooting is this edition. Combi-weapons very nearly double the cost of what is still a 1W 3+ model, and if you just leave them with the special issue boltguns then you lose out on a ton of points efficiency compared to Intercessors- for basically the same cost you gain +1 ap have literally 50% as many wounds and don't even get to take a troop slot.

A valid point, I am not sure mid-fielding them is the right role for Sternguard. Instead, look at things Intercessors cannot do such as rapidly getting into double-tap range. I think the best place for Sternguard is probably in a Pod, possibly with a cheap buff character like a Lieutenant. Drop them in just under 15" from a nice juicy target (preferably Elite infantry) and let rip. Your Intercessors are better camping on objectives (or at least they will be once all Troops get ObjSec again).

Edited August 29, 2017 by Karhedronuk

[Palwatch]

I made my SGVs out of teh dark angel box, teh one where they are all wearing cloaks. Just gave them BA bits

[durdle-durdle]

Someone at my store brought up a great point. Special bolters and stormbolters cost the same. So which is better? 4 shots at no ap or 2 shots at -2 ap? Without doing any math, my assumption would be that targets with 2/3+ saves will be hurt more by special bolters. Units with 4+ or worse or a high invuln are better targeted by stormbolters. Anyone tried this?

[Karhedron]

Statistically they are both equally effective against 3+ saves with special ammo being better only vs 2+. Storm Bolters have double the ROF but Special Bolters halve the effectiveness of the save.

 

However, you could argue Storm Bolters are better because they have the potential to cause more wounds. If you opponent whiffs their saves, you could cause 4 wounds at close range whereas a Special Bolter is capped at 2.

 

Cover throws a spanner into the works though. Special Bolters are statistically better vs MEQs in cover. Funnily enough, they become equal again vs TEQs in cover since a 1 always fails. This means that the Special Bolter only reduces the save to 3+ meaning it is once again the equal of a Storm Bolter.

 

So the Special Bolter is only better specifically against MEQs in cover or TEQs. Against other targets, the higher ROF of the Storm bolter makes it equal or better. Even where the are statistically equal, I would opt for the Storm Bolter for the chance to cause my opponents extra wounds if they roll badly on their saves.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Karhedronuk

[durdle-durdle]

Well, looks like that extra tactical squad I have is getting gold helmets and stormbolters. That sounds pretty great

[Spagunk]

Since heavy flamers don't seem very synergetic for sternguard, any other weapons people considering? Multimetas seem cool as well as heavy bolters. Anyone have success with a specific special/heavy for them?