Blood Angels sternguard vets ?

[Karhedron]

Since heavy flamers don't seem very synergetic for sternguard, any other weapons people considering? Multimetas seem cool as well as heavy bolters. Anyone have success with a specific special/heavy for them?

Grav Cannon synergises pretty well with Sternguard in terms of range and ROF. It also packs a bit of extra punch against vehicles. Fairly pricey though.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Karhedronuk

[Karhedron]

Another factor I forgot to consider on the Storm bolter vs special bolter debate is the improved range of the Special bolter. In all fairness though, if you want a unit to stand back and shoot improved bolters, I would spend a few extra PPM and get Intercessors for 2 wounds each and they are a Troop choice to boot.

[durdle-durdle]

That's a good point. Worth noting though that special bolter is -2 ap while bolt rifle is -1, so that's a consideration as well.

 

Although an extra wound and being troops is good for the price of a stormbolter. I usually use them as aggressive shooters in a pod though. The extra range on the special bolter is key, and allows me to put them in a building at double tap range. It would be difficult with stormbolters due to the 3" range everyone would have to fit In (outside 9" from the target but under 12") where special bolters have a 6" range (outside 9 but less than 15). It might be a good idea to mix them though, and put stormbolters up front and special bolters in the back so a 10-man squad can be maneuvered into a building and be in double tap range.

 

For rhino/razor squads I think stormbolters all the way. And if you want them to be objective holders, I think you're on the money with intercessors

[Thoridon]

I've been intending to build some Sternguard for a while and ran a few numbers to help decide...

 

 

 

As a sidenote those Plasma Cannon numbers are normal-mode as I wouldn't want the unit to rely on a Captain and I face -1 hit mods so an overcharged Plasma could easily blow up on either a 1 or 2.

 

As part of my BA force I wanted them to put out plenty of anti-infantry fire and be quite up close, ready to charge in and make use of those 2 attacks after shooting. I didn't want to be pure anti-horde though, as they could be in the vicinity of something bigger and nastier.

 

In the end I went with...

 

1x Storm Bolter & Power Fist Sergeant

1x Grav Cannon

3x Storm Bolters

 

I was building them with the special boltguns initially (partly because I used the BA Tac box with only 1 storm bolter) but after doing the numbers I decided that sacrificing some range was worth it for the extra anti-horde firepower and syncing with the 24" range of the Grav Cannon, which to me is the only Heavy worth replacing the SI Bolter or Storm Bolter with from a cost efficiency perspective. It's actually less efficient against infantry (at least in rapid fire range) but it matches their efficiency at longer range, and adds the anti-Monster threat I wanted the squad to have with a clear increase on T6+.

 

The Sergeant got a Fist for the same reason... the others bring 8 S4 attacks in melee so I wanted him to be able to cause damage against big things if needed, and a Sword or Axe just isn't enough of an increase over the Chainsword for that.

 

I see the squad performing much the same as a Tactical Terminator squad with Assault Cannon would, but with the Grav Cannon adding that bit more anti-heavy firepower. They obviously only have 1 Fist instead of 5 and the weaker armour, without deep strike, but they're also a lot cheaper.

 

I haven't decided how to get them into position yet but I'm thinking an AC Razorback with room for an added character might be the best option.

 

As a final note I do play mostly Power Level games at the moment, so that is a factor for me. While points games might have more cause to keep things basic, with Power Level the unit cost factors in at least mid-range upgrades. If you take bare squads in Power Level games you're paying for equipment they don't have. On the other hand, if you take maximum upgrades you're exploiting the system a bit (3x combi-weapons, 2x grav cannons and a Fist would cost the same PL but be far too cheesy). I was tempted to add a 2nd Grav Cannon as I'm not running any combi weapons but figured the single heavy and Fist would be enough to warrant the unit cost but not feel like I was modelling to exploit the PL system.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Thoridon

[Thoridon]

Just a few more thoughts for those using Power Level rather than points.

 

They said there's a rough Points:PL ratio of around 20:1, with around half the maximum possible upgrades then factored in. To see if you're getting your investment back in terms of PL spent on units it's probably easy to compare Sternguard to Intercessors, as they have very limited upgrades to provide a reference point.

 

At 100 pts for a bare squad of 5, Intercessors fall right on that 20:1 mark. The most they can add is 23 points worth, so their range is 100-123 or a median of say 111 (a 22:1 ratio).

 

Sternguard cost 7 PL for 5 so that's a 40% increase over the Intercessor PL cost. As a bare squad of Sternguard is actually cheaper than a bare squad of Intercessors clearly you need at least a few upgrades to justify the extra 2 PL.

 

You're looking at 90 base points for bare Sternguard so to match the power level efficiency of Intercessors you need at least 50 points of upgrades to reach 140 (40% above a bare Intercessor unit), or preferably 65 points worth of upgrades to match an Intercessor squad at mid-upgrade point (155 vs 111).

 

My newly built squad only has 40 points worth of upgrades so not only am I under the mid-point in comparison I'm also under the minimum level of upgrades (Mine are worth 130, while the 'minimum' for value would be 140). If I did add that 2nd Grav Cannon I'd be almost exactly on the mid-point level of relative upgrades (at 158 total, vs 155 for the mid-point of value).

 

Clearly Sternguard have their power level assigned with the ability to add 2 heavies plus a Combi for everyone else factored in. If you play Power Level and have mimimal upgrades to your Sternguard unit you're not getting the value from them. I thought my Heavy + Melee weapon would be ok, but looking at this I might just need to switch 1 more storm bolter for a 2nd grav cannon.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Thoridon