Best loadout for infantry squads

[Withershadow]

Krak grenades have the strength, AP, and multiple damage, to stand a good chance of killing a Terminator or other two-wound monstrosity.  We can mathhammer average results all day, but once the pedal hits the metal, and the dice hit the table, they do work, period.  People get too caught up in mathhammer results, but let's play that game too.

 

3 Grenade Launchers (15 points) vs. 2 plasma guns (14 points).

 

3x 0.5 x 0.66 x 0.5 = 0.495 wounds x D3 = 0.495 - 1.485 wounds. Max potential damage = 9 wounds.

2x 0.5 x 0.66 x 0.83 = 0.548 wounds. Max potential damage = 2 wounds.

4x 0.5 x 0.66 x 0.83 = 1.1 wounds. Max potential damage = 4 wounds.

 

So there you have it, against a Primaris or other T4-5 Sv3+ W2+ targets, grenade launchers work just fine, clearly better at 24", and potentially even at rapid fire range, with a higher max damage.  Sure you can overcharge the plasma, but then you are risking losing your special weapon model, or need to further invest an order, etc. etc. etc. 

 

Or let's run it against mooks with a T3, W1 and 5+ save.

 

3x 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.66 x D6 = 0.495 -  2.97 wounds. Max potential casualties = 18. 

2x 0.5 x 0.83 x 1 x 1= 0.83 wounds. Max potential casualties = 2.

4x 0.5 x 0.83 x 1 x 1 = 1.66 wounds. Max potential casualties = 4.

 

So regardless of range, grenade launchers kill more chaff with a much higher damage potential.

 

In conclusion, I love plasma guns on elite guard units with BS3+ and multiple special weapons to take full advantage of orders so they can always be overcharged.  However grenade launchers are a nice and cheap weapon option for line infantry squads that gives them some flexibility and increases their damage potential.  Those complaining about their reliability are both too obsessed with mathhammer AND don't really understand mathhammer in the new 8th edition paradigm of volume trumping all.

 

At the end of the day, arming everything under the sun with a plasma gun, depending on your regiment of choice, may be tedious, or expensive, or both, whereas grenade launchers are plentiful and dirt-cheap in the existing model range for all regiments.  All 6 of my Krieg infantry squads have a grenade launcher, and I've never regretted having them.  Nor would I be interested in paying $60 to buy three weapon sets just to pull the plasma guns out of them.  Particularly if GW responds to the current "spam all the plasma guns" guard meta by increasing their cost.

[Halfpint100]

I just wish they made the old metal 90s cadians with grenade launchers. I use them as my basic guard, so i can't even have that as a choice

[CoffeeGrunt]

Literally never mentioned Mathhammer once, personally. I just find Grenade Launchers to be incredibly mediocre whenever I've played them. They're better than they used to be, but they're still the jack of all trades when I'd rather take something good at a specific job.

 

I mean, you fire at Marines. The Krak mode doesn't have the volume of fire to do nothing, and the D3 Damage is meaningless. The Frag has too low a Strength to matter, and no AP. Fire at a tank, and both are woeful. They only really work if you have a few of them, but you've already stated that it's for line infantry, which means one per ten men, low volume.

 

I'd rather just hand the guy a Lasgun and shout at him so he shoots it four times. Saves me points to take squads with weapons that'll actually help out.

[Withershadow]

Wounding T4 and 5 on 5+ is adequate. I don't have enough orders to give to each single unit on the table, I rather save them for more important stuff. I don't see how D6 at 24" always being more consistent than 4 at 12" only with an order is such a difficult concept to get across. Also, Krieg doesn't have FRFSRF.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Oh you're running Krieg. I've been finding in standard Guard that with only two HQ choices outside of Special Characters I end up taking loads of Company Commanders.

[Guardsman Bob]

So I’ve been trying out near bare-bones Infantry Squads (Boltgun & Flamer) with CCs and Commissars nearby, it has an oddball success to it. Just this evening I pressured Salamanders & Primes with just six Squads and four officers. While the dice may have hated my Boltguns (never inflicted any wounds) the eight guys shooting lasguns kept their rolls nice and statical with the ordered ranked fire.

 

I’m torn between leaving them be or trying to sneak a Heavy Bolter or Autocannon on the two rear Squads who focus as the Basilisk screens. This last game everyone moved forward when no infiltrators or deepstrikers came out to play.

[Altasmurf]

I've been doing somthing similar, and have found it quite effective. By pulling all heavy, special, and boxes from my 6 squads (20 pts per squad on average) I get enough points for a taurox prime and a platoon commander to support. I've found this also means I need less commissars, freeing up more points.

[CoffeeGrunt]

I've been running six squads. Two basic with Flamers, four with Plasma Guns and Bolters.

 

Haven't had a game yet where more than half of the squads have died, and those hidden Plasma Guns can be pretty nasty!

[Thoridon]

It'll be interesting to see what the remaining regimental doctrines are, as I had various plans in place from the Index that might now need to change a bit - or be enhanced, in some cases.

 

So far I'm very happy with my Catachan infantry running a flamer each and upgraded melee weapon on the Sergeant as my up-close troops. The extra strength and a flamer order are perfect for how I run them.

 

My Mordians/Praetorians I think will stay the most basic for lasgun spam (and the fixed specials my old metal models have - ie. one of everything).

 

I'm eager to see the Valhallan doctrine and order today. Right now I only have a small detachment of those (Officer plus 2x Infantry Squads) and again they have an old special each being metal models (flamer and melta). Depending on what they get they'll either remain a small patrol detachment or be expanded. I wonder if they'll get the ability to double squad size and run in units of 20. If that's the case I could see myself maybe adding an extra 20 bodies for 2x20, but that's just speculation on my part.

 

For Cadian infantry I'm not sure yet. I was starting to build a detachment with grenade launchers in their squads but that's on hold until I see what they get. I'm wondering if they'll get something like a 4+ armour save (they have the most armoured looking models) or maybe something that enhances heavy weapons in squads (fire on the move without BS penalty?). Anyhow, will have a think after seeing what they get :)

 

So far all my heavies are out as separate heavy weapon squads, and it'll take something specific enhancing their inclusion in a regiment's infantry squads to put them back in.

[NatBrannigan]

I still like Grenade Launchers on my basic Infantry. I never know what my Infantry are going to be up against as they just march up the table towards an objective. The GL gives a decent range and good options against everything. Results are mediocre but it's a mediocre weapon with a mediocre price.

 

I'm, now going to be running a Vets squad behind my main line with Plasma to threaten enemy characters (Yay new Mordian order!), but the better BS makes the more expensive weapon well worth it. If I run a Plasma gun on an Infantry Squad I'll only ever roll 1's to hit if they overcharge, or 3's to hit otherwise because the great dice god "Deesixus" hates me...

[Halfpint100]

the great dice god "Deesixus" hates me...

 

Have you tried sacrificing a virgin into a volcano? Bit tricky to find one in England, but it works!

[Zectz]

Isn't it nice guys? Having an edition where everyone is tight between choosing weapon options for a change. I love it when there isn't an obvious 1 choice for weapons and you just spam that weapon for efficiency.

 

Now we have people actually considering heavy weapons in back line infantry squads. People are actually using Grenade Launchers for the first time in a while, and the use/effectiveness of the rest of the specials is so even that people can't agree that a particular one is an auto include or a bring to all lists spam type. Everything is viable now and I love it. That's the whole point right, to give us viable choices so we can pick what we want to play without being gimped.

[Withershadow]

Meltaguns feel overpriced.

[Shamansky]

I'll try to fix a bolter on my elysian trooper then. 

I know, i know. It took me a year to make it. But here what i've got

Sorry the pict's quality and the paint job is not done. But i'm afraid i'll forget about it again.

What do you think?

 

The formula is 'Cadian bolt pistol+marine boltgun = Elysian bullpup boltgun'

[NatBrannigan]

Well that's just a cracking looking boltgun.

 

Stops the gun looking far too big to be held properly, really fits with the Elysian theme, just a splendid bit of work!

 

Now I have to cut all mine Sgt bolters off and try again though..... so thanks a lot.....

[MrZakalwe]

Bolter/chainsword sarge (I really wish they'd give me the option back of just giving my sarge a lasgun) then either a heavy bolter, an autocannon or a plasma gun.

 

As a squad is 40 points basic I just can't justify putting anything more expensive than a single weapon in it (though the bolter is a no brainer as it's the only >12" range weapon option the arge gets). 

[noigrim]

I've found that a single plasma gun works best, if only the sergeant could have a lasrifle like everyone else!