Iconclad Dreadnought & Loadout

[wako1302]

I am thinking of running a Stormraven, and think it maybe a bit of fun to drop a Dreadnought behind enemy lines.

 

Just have a few questions ...

 

Does the Stormraven need to be in 'hover' mode to deploy the dreadnought.

 

What loadout would you take on the Ironclad, I am thinking

• Dreadnought Chainfist
• Dreadnought Combat Weapon with Heavy Flamer
• Ironclad Assault Launchers
• Meltagun

But I see the dreadnought gets 4 attacks, would 2 be with the Chainfist and 2 with the combat weapon or could all 4 be done with the Chainfist and if so would the Hurricane Bolter be an options instead of the Combat weapon. 

 

[Ciler]

The Raven does not need to be in hover mode, although it was the case in 7th edition, there is no such requirement in the current one.

 

You can do all 4 attacks with the chainfist.

 

If you do not take the other CCW you keep the same number of attacks (4) but lose the benefit of the Wrecker special ability (re-roll 1s to hit). If you keep a captain or chapter master in range, that isn't a problem. 

[KhorneHunter57x]

I would suggest a pair of Hunter-Killer Missiles - sure, you're probably hitting on 4+, but they're cheap and awesome now that split fire is a thing.
 

If you do not take the other CCW you keep the same number of attacks (4) but lose the benefit of the Wrecker special ability (re-roll 1s to hit). If you keep a captain or chapter master in range, that isn't a problem.

It's an Adeptus Astartes <Chapter> Dreadnought, so you can use Wisdom of the Ancients on it as well if you'd like.  Useful if you also dropped off a melee squad along with it, or in the Shooting phase if your Stormraven hovered nearby.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Mine has a seismic hammer.  Yes it's less accurate, but if you connect, that's five damage per hit.  Mine OSK'd a Rhino yesterday.

[Gothical]

Chapter Tactics can play a part in selecting the best load-out for a Dreadnought. For example, an Ultramarines Ironclad is absolutely brutal with Hurricane Bolter and Chainfist with Heavy Flamer, given that it can withdraw from combat and shoot with those excellent guns (this can be a better idea than remaining in combat if the Dread's melee is overkill, or it is seriously outclassed).

 

A Dreadnought CCW and a Seismic Hammer can be a great load-out as you benefit from the Wrecker ability (therefore partially offsetting the -1 To Hit of the Seismic Hammer - against infantry targets use the DCCW), can still carry a pair of Meltaguns or Heavy Flamers with an optional pair of Hunter-Killer missiles to further enhance its firepower.

 

I am not sure of the value of Ironclad Assault Launchers. The ability is quite random (4+ followed by D3) and they are no longer free (5 points in FAQ), yet Mortal Wounds are powerful enough that this may be warranted (especially on an anti-armour version of dual-Melta & HKM). I think they are an upgrade to be left until the end of list-building as a nice-but-not-essential kind of thing.

 

Mine has a seismic hammer.  Yes it's less accurate, but if you connect, that's five damage per hit.  Mine OSK'd a Rhino yesterday.

 

I am iffy on the Seismic Hammer because of that -1, though I do intend to use it as I have the brilliant Forge World eagle head one. It feels like the Chainfist will do more damage overall, as although it does 4 damage per hit instead of 5 you are more likely to connect with those hits. Glad to hear some practical experience though, makes me less dubious.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I also have the FW Mk.IV Ironclad with the eagle-headed ram.  Man does it look awesome.

[Ciler]

 

 

 

I am iffy on the Seismic Hammer because of that -1, though I do intend to use it as I have the brilliant Forge World eagle head one. It feels like the Chainfist will do more damage overall, as although it does 4 damage per hit instead of 5 you are more likely to connect with those hits. Glad to hear some practical experience though, makes me less dubious.

The math goes as follows : attacks*chance to hit*chance to wound*(1-chance to save)*damage, assuming hitting a land raider (T8, 2+)

• Seismic hammer : 4*(3/6)*(5/6)*(5/6)*5=6.9
• Chainfist : 4*(4/6)*(5/6)*(5/6)*4=7.4

In short, the chainfist will do more damage in the long run. On any given roll, they'll do about the same.

[Medicinal Carrots]

The hammer is statistically better against a target with exactly 5, 9, or 10 wounds remaining. The chainfist is better against any other target.

Edited August 22, 2017 by Medicinal Carrots

[Gothical]

Cheers folks, that's put my mind to rest a bit (even if I wonder why the Hammer costs more than the Chainfist). Like I said, I was already planning on using it but I definitely feel better about doing so now.

[Timur]

What I take on my IC:

 

Chainfist/Hurr.Bolters/H. Flamer. Aslt. Launchers.

 

I have a captain and can promote a dread (I have a few) to re-roll 1's for a CP.  I like the consistent damage from the CF.

 

Ironclads can get mobbed to death.  Bolters and H. flamer help.   He's got a dread CF, he'll be fine in CC.

 

Don't be stingy, take the assault launchers.

[Colonel Bindoff]

Wrecker with Chainfist - get the charge in and hit something you want shredded.  I always take the HKs for the turn it isn't in combat.  I love it - take mine every game.  

[Gothical]

What I take on my IC:

 

Chainfist/Hurr.Bolters/H. Flamer. Aslt. Launchers.

 

I have a captain and can promote a dread (I have a few) to re-roll 1's for a CP.  I like the consistent damage from the CF.

 

Ironclads can get mobbed to death.  Bolters and H. flamer help.   He's got a dread CF, he'll be fine in CC.

 

Don't be stingy, take the assault launchers.

 

Has the Heavy Flamer made much impact when you already have the Hurricane, in your experience? I am wondering if I can get some use out of Meltagun plus Hurricane Bolter - the latter for anti-horde deterrence and the former form combining with Assault Launchers and the melee weapon for anti-tank/-monster/-elite work.

[Race Bannon]

A jack of all trades is a master of none ^_^

[Timur]

What Race said.  A single melta's pretty poor compared to the H flamer in the IC situation. 

Remember the flamer can hurt vehicles now and will get more than 1 shot sometimes.

 

Also, seriously, #2 cause of death or serious harm to IC comes from big mobs (even worse w/ PK/PF/etc hiding in there).

 

#1 cause of death is lances or lascannons for those who are curious.

 

Assault launchers are 5 pts. of random fun.  Embrace your inner Ork.

[Ciler]

I think the melta may regain some interest in 8th in so far as, as anything can disengage, vehicles you don't instantly delete may try and run away from you, so a potent (short) ranged weapon may be good.

[Gothical]

A jack of all trades is a master of none

 

True, but that goes for any variant of Ironclad - possessing a Chainfist and Hurricane Bolter makes it multi-role rather than specialised, and its only options are Meltagun/Storm Bolter, Meltagun/Heavy Flamer, or Heavy Flamer/Heavy Flamer. Any way you equip the thing is jack-of-all trades, yet it is proving to be a fantastic beast thanks to T8 and not having a degrading profile.

 

Even were I to give it the Hurricane Bolter, its primary target would be things like vehicles, as that is where its strengths really shine (attacks with great AP and high Damage) especially with the Assault Launchers and potentially 2 Hunter-Killers, which is why I thought the Meltagun might fit better than the lonely Heavy Flamer.

[Timur]

Well, It's how I use it.  I've used it in past editions w/ 2 CC weapons (when it got re-roll to wound and an attack mind you.)

Now I use it the way I outlined above.

 

The rules are different.  The unit is different.  The Ironclad is on the table with the rest of my army (@ 2k points right now---switched him to venerable autocannon dread for lower points games* http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335428-1st-crack-at-2k-pts-of-sms-8th-edition/ .)

 

Think of it this way, IC operates close in, always advancing toward the weight of an opposing army.  He's T8 3+ with a few wounds, I want him shot at instead of my min. tacs., min. scouts, min. devs. etc.   You force a choice on your opponent.

At that range, short range low str. shots come into play.  They help thin hordes (a weakness).  The CF sees off any toons/vehicles/dreads/etc. that wander too close.

 

Works like a charm.  I love my dreads this edition.

[Gothical]

I used to run one with dual melee weapons and dual Heavy Flamers in a Drop Pod - as a Salamanders player it was utterly glorious, but the overall change in rules (elimination of templates, complete change of Sallie CT, no longer able to Pod) make it less appealing, so I certainly appreciate that the unit/game is very different now.