8th edition DC load out help for a returning BA player

[Ultradad74]

Just got back into my first army after a two edition absence from them. The sons of Sanguinius tugged at my arteries long enough.. And I finally answered the call home!

 

I'm pretty much sticking to our unique units.. I've got a Furioso with Frag, death co and librarian dread, sanguinary priest on foot, the start collecting box that I went dakkapred and flamer tacs with (with a second on hold), the scout half of lost patrol (if anything just to have something else to do with our Genestealer guy.. And, of course, SHOTGUNS!) and Sanguinary Guard with all swords and plasma.... Which leads me to my dilemma with DC. I'm definitely going jet packs and assault flavor. But I don't really want to be that guy and spam power weapons and plasma, do I?

 

What's everyone's experience been with them so far? Would love to hear what has worked for everyone and what had been found lackluster.

[Morticon]

Welcome back into the fold! It's awesome that youre sticking to the BA.  Please let us know if you find any combos that work particularly well.  

You're likely to find that you're short on models and units compared to other armies on account of our inflated cost - That is currently our cross to bear.  

 

 

if your club plays with a lot of terrain, specifically LOS blocking- youre likely to have a lot more fun, though. That stuff aside....

In terms of DC, you're looking at 17ppm, and 20ppm with the JP.  Its a hefty price change (other units pay only 2ppm for the JP upgrade). 

On the charge you're looking at 4 attacks with Chainswords, and 3 with PW.  In order to best answer your question, we need to find out two things.

Who are your majority opponents, and what other HQs are you likely to take.  

Powerswords are very, very strong, and very cheap.  But, if you're going with a Priest in the mix, then the sword wins hands down. If youre not looking at a Priest support, then axes and swords work out statistically similar for most armies - and so will depend on your local meta. 

DC are no longer resilient like before as their "FNP" is only a 6+, and its only a 6+ per wound.  So, for any multi-wound hits, they need more than one 6+ to prevent themselves from dying.  (Truth be told, you're better off with the DC in a rhino for this reason - and maybe Vanguard Veterans with a smattering of storm shields).

Always take hammers over fists- tiny points difference for the 3 dam. 

8 DC with JP, a hammer and 5 swords will set you back 200 points.  Decently killy.  If youre up against horde more, go with Chainswords rather for the extra attacks.  


 

[tychobi]

I like your style Ultradad  Death Co is awesome.  I like small squads 5 with 1 axe 1 fist and 2 plasma pistols.  Possibly hammer is better but really a small difference.  Death Co are not fearless anymore  so small squads are less likely to loose models to morale.  Also if you deep strike multiple units your chances of a successful charge go up substantially.  I highly recommend Lemartes if you are taking 10 or more DC marines.  He is a great multiplier for them.  

[Remtek]

Morts advice is solid. My favorite loadout is powersword and boltgun with 1 thunderhammer per 5 models. I strongly suggest you magnetize all your death company (jump packs). Since we can charge out of rhinos now they are a strong contender to the jump pack. If do you run them with jump pack i'm partial to running a 15man squad with a libby to give them +1 attack and 4++ invul, just make sure you save 2 command points to pass the moral check or bring Astorath.

[Charlo]

Straight from FB yesterday, they confirmed you don't need to attack with a chainsword to get the extra attack.

 

So you can legally arm your DC with a Power Sword and Chain sword for a cheeky extra chainsword attack, usually pretty similar to a bolt pistol but more chances to be buffed.

 

Plus looks awesome!

[our_baz]

Only played against IG with my BA @ 1000 pts. Ran 2 x 5man squads both with jump packs. One squad with Bolt pistol and chainswords for cutting through  the chaff that is IG Inf squads. And another loaded with Power fist and Thunderhammer for cracking open guard transports / character wrecking.

 

The bolt pistol and chainsword combo really cuts through hordes effectively. Couple that with unleash rage from a libby and you are looking at 5A / model which isn't to be sneeezed at. 

My other squad was a little lackluster, really needed a Sang priest in attendance to be more effective.  But the IG characters they came across were removed no prob...which shouldn't be a surprise!

[Morticon]

Straight from FB yesterday, they confirmed you don't need to attack with a chainsword to get the extra attack.

 

So you can legally arm your DC with a Power Sword and Chain sword for a cheeky extra chainsword attack, usually pretty similar to a bolt pistol but more chances to be buffed.

 

Plus looks awesome!

 

Any linky here, Charlo?

[Charlo]

I'd love to, but it's a reply buried in the comments of I think the death guard reveal post.

 

I'll have a look on desktop later and see....

[Charlo]

Found it.

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/tXmOa

Edited August 23, 2017 by Charlo

[Morticon]

Ooh! Shot for the share.  Thats interesting. 

[Spagunk]

Very interesting. That makes chainswords generally useful for anyone. And because it costs 0 points, it's a net benefit.

 

Power axe(sword)+chainsword DC seems like a good idea now.

[Jolemai]

Very interesting. That makes chainswords generally useful for anyone. And because it costs 0 points, it's a net benefit.

 

Power axe(sword)+chainsword DC seems like a good idea now.

On one perhaps as he can toss the squad's grenade, but staying in combat still has its merits as you can fire those bolt pistols in the subsequent shooting phase.

 

What I mean is, I don't feel it's worth it for smaller squads.

[Spagunk]

 

Very interesting. That makes chainswords generally useful for anyone. And because it costs 0 points, it's a net benefit.

 

Power axe(sword)+chainsword DC seems like a good idea now.

On one perhaps as he can toss the squad's grenade, but staying in combat still has its merits as you can fire those bolt pistols in the subsequent shooting phase.

 

What I mean is, I don't feel it's worth it for smaller squads.

 

 

...to which I never survived long enough to actually use...

[Charlo]

 

Very interesting. That makes chainswords generally useful for anyone. And because it costs 0 points, it's a net benefit.

 

Power axe(sword)+chainsword DC seems like a good idea now.

On one perhaps as he can toss the squad's grenade, but staying in combat still has its merits as you can fire those bolt pistols in the subsequent shooting phase.

 

What I mean is, I don't feel it's worth it for smaller squads.

 

I'd point you back in the direction of Morticons letter.

 

If your DC are charging something that doesn't want to be in combat - they will fall back and leave before you even get to shoot the pistols I bet.

[Thoridon]

So far in 8th I've used a mixed squad of 5 with jump packs, what was Raphen's build from the 7th Deathstorm set (so Hammer, Fist, Sword and 1x Inferno Pistol). In the games they've been in the results have been mixed - the Hammer has been great when charging tough targets, the inferno pistol has whiffed some games and dealt several wounds in others. The sword and chainswords have really felt lacking against the sort of targets the Hammer and Fist like, usually just bouncing off. Sometimes the Hammer and Fist pair would get bad rolls and the remaining weapons were too weak to finish off a target, letting a nasty creature hit back and kill a bunch while still alive.

 

I've been meaning to build more for a while and now I have, adding a couple more units (and breaking up Raphen's squad) to get more focus.

 

I took the existing Hammer guy and added 4 more to give a unit of 5 Hammers. Their aim will be to lurk in cover, protected from deep strike shenanigans by other units until they can use the 12" move to get into position to charge a big nasty and try to kill it before it can hit back.

 

The other unit I changed was to snip the bolt pistols off 5 chainsword models and replace them with 3 axes and 2 swords paired with the chainsword each (it would've been 5 axes but I ran out of spares). These will be thrown at weaker targets, using volume of attacks (with the +1 chainsword hit) to mow through horde types. I know a bolt pistol and chainsword hit count the same, but:

 

A. Dual melee weapons really gives the right feel to DC.

B. Not killing things at range keeps the charge distance the same (instead of killing a few early and then needing to roll 1-2 higher on the charge).

C. When our Codex arrives we might get something like the +1S again. Even if not that, I expect our chapter tactic to be some kind of melee boost (whether damage modifier or charge based). There's a good chance whatever we get will work with a chainsword hit rather than a bolt pistol.

D. Did I mention it looks good?

 

The Axe/Sword + Chainsword combo gives 4 hits on the charge to kill plenty of horde targets and still some stength boost / armour pen if they run into something a bit tougher.

 

I should also mention that so far in 8th I've only played using the new Power Level system, rather than points, as it's a lot faster to throw a list together at short notice for a quick game. As the power level takes potential upgrades into account I found that having a bunch of 'bare' models in units for ablative wounds has been too inefficient, as I'm paying for weapons they don't have.

 

Technically I could've gone Fist + Inferno Pistol on my anti-monster unit for higher damage output combined versus Hammers but I don't want to run the absolute max upgrades to exploit the power level system too much. While running 5 hammers would still be a reasonable expense in the points system I feel that's offset by only running swords/axes on the other unit, given that I'll be paying the same 'power' for each.

 

That leaves the remainder of Raphen's mixed unit with an extra Sword guy added to replace the Hammer, which I can use if I want a 3rd squad or add to one of the others if I want a bigger unit for Astorath or Lemartes to buff, and I may still switch out the weapons to match one of the other 2 squads if these new builds work the way I want.

 

I do then have 5 foot DC with bolters who ran with Tycho in 7th. I'm thinking I might add a chainsword to each and run them with Corbulo hopping out of a transport to make use of that +1S while matching his movement speed, but not sure yet.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Thoridon