Transports versus Chapter Tactics/Stratagems

[Damo1701]

Since we had the Codex released, an interesting topic has reared its head a few times.

 

Should we be taking transports, or just use out Stratagem and Chapter Tactics?  Let's have a quick look from my point of view.

 

Transports:

 

Con:  Huge increase in points for both Rhino and Drop Pod, which was slightly reduced from the Index listing.

Pro:  Since units can now share transports as long as they fit, you can get lots of deployment drops down to a few.

 

Con:  Transports don't benefit from our Chapter Tactic, though I've not noticed this to be a large problem with other vehicles.

Pro:  Theoretically, vehicles have become tougher now, though I've not really seen much evidence of that.

 

Stratagem:

 

Pro:  Lets you deploy any Infantry unit (Squad/Character) anywhere on the table AFTER deployment but BEFORE 1st turn (more than 9" away from enemy models/deployment zone.)

Con: Costs 1 Command Point per unit (and elite armies struggle to get large numbers of command points.)

 

Pro: Guarantees a T1 Charge should you get first turn.

Con: Some tables can leave units Striking from the Shadows in vulnerable places if terrain cover is sparse.

 

Chapter Tactics:

 

Pro:  Protects Fire-Base units from long range incoming fire to a certain degree.

Con: Only applicable to Infantry, Bikes, and Dreadnoughts.

 

Obviously, this list isn't exhaustive, and doesn't account for factors like a drop pod will let you exploit a hole in the enemy backfield really easily, and without fear of falling off the table.  A well-placed pod with something nasty inside will do wonders for giving your enemy a real headache, but, in Matched Play, you only have 3 turns to hope such a hole opens up.

 

I can generally muster around 6 CP per 2,000 point game, which, on average sees me SftS with around 3-4 units, and saving the spare 2-3 for whatever I can get from them when they are needed.  In the list I am working towards currently, I will have the 6 CP, and will strike a 10-man Vanguard squad, "Shrike", and a 10-man Sternguard squad, which leaves me 3 CP for the rest of the game.  

 

What that does is gives me the T1 charge, without facing Overwatch, and then getting the Vanguard in nice and close.  If I've read the rules correctly, just being within 1" of a unit means they are engaged, and thus, unable to fire Overwatch.  Leaving the Vanguard to come in unmolested, and supported by the Sternguard, for when the enemy falls back.

 

So, how do you think things balance for the Raven Guard/Successors in teh context of Stratagem/Transports/Chapter Tactics?

[Gulltramarine]

I think rhinos are one of the best value units in the game and, if my mid and close range units didn't all have jump packs, I'd probably run them. They give incredible protection with T7 W10 and one of their most glorious assets is that nobody wants to aim their heavy weapons into a humble rhino. A must for non-JP assault and sternguard imo

[thewarriorhunter]

What if you don't get to go first though? Since it's now a roll-off you can't guarantee you get to initiate the T1 charges. It seems like a lot more of a high risk/reward to be hyper aggressive with SFTS now.

 

I'll admit I don't have a ton of games so I'm speculating based on theory-hammer.

 

It seems to me that the balance between STFS and deep strike has to be found so you make your charges, protect your units, and get good placement. I do think there's a place for transports since I've seen them soak up a lot of firepower before dying in the bat-reps I've watched.

 

Overall it seems like there's no 'auto-strategy' and I think that's a good thing. It causes you to think, plan, and try different things. Also what worked great in one game may get you crushed in another.

[defl0]

Going second is the hardest part of planning for Raven Guard.

 

Going first is easy. Aggressors. Overwatch blockers. Thunder hammer van guard vets. Lightning claw vets. Null zone jumper libby. Shrike. Jumper Chaplain. Pretty much covers/kills everything you could run into. 

 

Maximizing a go second list might actually be insightful. It would probably be made of units that start off the board or are hard to kill from range, like rifle men dreads, or maybe units in bunkers and the like. 

[Gulltramarine]

You guys seem to play a very different way than I do. I assume second turn by default

In fact, I don't even try to seize, I prefer to know that I can wait until all their units have deepstriked before mine

[Mileposter]

Maximizing a go second list might actually be insightful. It would probably be made of units that start off the board or are hard to kill from range, like rifle men dreads, or maybe units in bunkers and the like.

This is how I play. I play more shooty with Raven Guard, using SftS to set up multiple fronts the opponent has to fight on rather than setting up for turn 1 charges. I've found that Turn 1 charges are easily countered and overcome over the course of the game. So rather than SftS, I rely on the Jump Pack entry on Turn 2 or 3 to get my Vanguard Vets with Captain support into combat... It's far more difficult for the opponent to overcome.

 

A pair of Rifleman Dreadnoughts and a pair of Stormtalons really shore up the heavier hitting part, and keep the shooty mobile for when the battlefield inevitably shifts.

 

Essentially, I guess my style would be described as "Mobile Gun Line". Keep the opponent fighting on three separate fronts if I can.

[duz_]

I don't plan to play first or second with my lists, I leave that up to the dice gods!

As for Transports vs SftS I have been pondering this a lot lately, particularly around Argessors

I think SftS allows great flexibility for units that need to be close the enemy, but would otherwise have to walk up the field

So it does have the potential to replace drop pods at the very least, unless you want the tactical flexibility of determining which turn (1 - 3) they arrive. 

However there is still use for Rhinos as they provide speed and maneuverability on field for the duration of the game (at least until they're blown up)

 

I think at least in the case of Agressors they work really well for RG as you won't need to purchase an expensive Repuslor tank to get them up in the enemies grill 

Which is what I may end up doing, although they are expensive pointswise and also take up an already crowded elite slot for me

[Jochteas]

Honestly I was looking to create a chapter of Primaris ravenguard explicitly for the reason of lack of transportation dependency. I imagine like 100 power game. Dropping 2, 6 man aggressor squads, loading up a repulsor with Hellblazers and a 1 captain to let them reroll ones so they can overcharge. Keep 2 units of 3 interceptors deployed in orbit, then have 3 groups of 5 intercessors with a nearby apothecary to manage them. You drop your aggressors in a place they can't ignore, they then must decide to deal with that or the faint rank barge full of plasma happy blazers. If they go after the Aggressors you drop in the interceptors into support and to unload and cause another major incident. To me it makes the Aggressors the anvil the Interceptors the fire and the lumbering repulsor the hammer. It sounds fun and flexible. Of course I am limiting myself to primaris marines only.