What is our most effective elite infantry killer?

[BassWave]

I have a friend who runs super elite space wolves, so only terminators, wulfen, and TWs. To make matters worse he runs storm shields on as many things as possible. My initial thought to deal with this is drowning him in shots in order to force saves. So aside from vultures/punisher tanks, what is our best counter to these units?

[WarriorFish]

If you're looking at killing (rather than the benefits of absorbing them with numbers) spam fire work but with the increased number of wounds around now it is less effective for it. Definitely still an important part of the arsenal though, especially with the improvement to FRFSRF.

 

It depends on how much his love for Storm Shields goes, it he really does load up on them like there's no tomorrow spam fire may well be the best approach but supplementing it with appropriate weaponry would help. I'm thinking that D2(+) weapons could be a good idea, as each one that gets through makes more of a difference. Overcharged plasma (keep that Office nearby!) will wound the Termies on a 2+ and each shot that works it's way through is a dead model so that's worth a go especially with the reduced cost

 

Hellhounds are good anyway, their Inferno Cannon dishing out D2 competently but they'd also make for good picket units to charge and generally annoy your opponent. Killing them is good, but holding them up and slowing them down works to this end too If you can get the units nearby you could even cycle through withdrawing and charging to maximise shooting. Plus watching someone's Death Start unit flailing about in combat against Guardsmen never gets old Numbers is Guard's strength in 8th more than ever before so when in doubt add more units

[duz_]

It really depends on the unit?

If its T4/5, W:2, Sv3++ stuff I would say swamp them in volume of shots, Wyvrens, FRFSRF, Heavy Bolters / Autocannons.

If its high T, W:3+ then you want high S, D:2+ profiles, eg lascannons, meltaguns, Basilisks, Battlecannons etc

[Mitchverr]

Mass stormshields I would go with mass firepower, simply because AP isnt really an issue in that. If you dont want to just use mass punishers, I would also suggest possibly using units such as the quad mortar, 4d6 attacks will land plenty of strikes on that squad and is priced fairly for its firepower.

 

If theres stuff without shields, well, I would say the earthshaker battery is our best "heavy elite infantry" killer, its fairly cheap, it cant be locked in CC, it doesnt need its crew and, well, its an earthshaker lol, whatever it hits is going to have a bad time and can double up to help kill other stuff.

[Halfpint100]

inferno cannons for -1 D2, autocannons for -1 D2. Overcharged plasma. Vindicare assasins (-3, ignores invulnerable saves D3 damage). heavy flamers. mass flashlights (also called lasguns). 

 

Autocannons would be my main suggestion. Can be ordered, great range, wounds on 3s. only -1, so always 3+ save, D2 so kills most of them in one go. Also only 57pts for 3! for 570 points, you can have 60 str 7 -1 D2 rounds

[librisrouge]

Stormtrooper squads with plasmaguns and an officer on hand for FRFSRF. Four hellgun shots a guy, plus the plasma, makes for some impressive anti-heavy infantry fire in my experience.

[mertbl]

Autocannons en masse seem like the answer. And manticores.

[librisrouge]

Autocannons en masse seem like the answer. And manticores.

I don't know why I didn't think about that.

 

Manticores are ALWAYS the answer.

[mertbl]

Is your opponent running small units of Thunderwolves and wulfen? Manticores with 2d6 shots wounding on 2's will drop plenty of damage on units of 3 or 5 men.

 

 

 

Autocannons en masse seem like the answer. And manticores.

I don't know why I didn't think about that.

 

Manticores are ALWAYS the answer.

[BassWave]

Yeah any unit that can take storm shields, he takes at least 3 per unit. His thunder wolves all have shields. Its very irritating. I have to admit I haven't even looked at manticores but with so many people advocating their use Im guessing they're good? I'm definitely looking into quad mortars.

[Halfpint100]

Manticores are fun! Quad mortars are alright. I have 2 and wasn't that impressed with them. Only averaging 7 hits per model isn't great. Then again, in the 3 games I used them. I rolled under average every shot bar 2.....

[mertbl]

Another tactic is try and get him to use a non invul guy to start taking wounds. use small arms, wyverns, stuff without modifiers. Get 1 wound and then he has to keep taking them on that model. After you wound him then hit him with lascannons and over charged plasma. Rinse and repeat.

 

Otherwise just cheap multishot weapons, just like in the rolls and force him to roll saves. Eventually they will go down. If he is running tooled up wulfen and TWC you should outnumber him significantly.

 

Yeah any unit that can take storm shields, he takes at least 3 per unit. His thunder wolves all have shields. Its very irritating. I have to admit I haven't even looked at manticores but with so many people advocating their use Im guessing they're good? I'm definitely looking into quad mortars.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

You're definitely going to want to look at high volume of fire regardless. My suggestion is lots of cheap infantry with officers to issue orders, battle tanks for high damage output, and lot's of artillery. Then gunline it. If you go with artillery, go with wyverns, basilisks, manticores, and deathstrikes, so as to make the most of a Master of Ordnance, in fact you might want to double up on the MoO so as to spread your arty out a bit. Then you just hammer him with as many shots as possible. Also key is going to be to present him with more stuff than he can kill in 5-7 turns.

 

Drown him in corpses, his or yours it matters not, for the glory of the emperor!

 

By the way of analysis, TWC is not as vicious as it was last edition, the Rider's attacks are separate from the mount, and have different stats, so that's a plus for you. Another option is to take or ally in your own sort of Melee unit. Tie his units up with some melee of your own. Hammer it it with guard shooting and then hit the remainders with some assault.

[FallenSoldiers]

Plasma. Lots and lots of plasma! It's so versatile this edition!

[Chaplain Killmer]

I can't say that i have a lot of experience with the new edition at this point - but if he has the shields - take the mag lights. Force the guys to take armor saves and they will die as in older editions.

[NatBrannigan]

Yep, lots of good ideas above but Autocannons will do serious damage to Terminators with SS's. just need to sneak one wound past and blam, one dead Terminator.

 

As always overcharged Plasma will kill literally anything with ease and can be taken in huge quantities... But that's boring and I'm hoping Plasma at least double is cost when the codex comes out.

[PliskinAJ]

Is the storm shield a 3++ now? If so I would only invest in weapons that are -1 AP or cause mortal wounds. Otherwise you are wasting points on something that is negated. 

 

Going from a 2+ save to a 3+ save doesn't sound like much but you just doubled what he fails saves at. 

[CoffeeGrunt]

They've been 3++ since at least 6th, possibly 5th IIRC.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

They've been 3++ since at least 6th, possibly 5th IIRC.

Since 3rd ed if I remember correctly. :)

[PliskinAJ]

Didn't know if they changed it in this edition. Either way don't waste your time on high AP weapons if he is rocking many of them.