Mech Guard in 8th Edition

[lash144]

Hello fellow Tank Commanders,

 

let's talk about Mech Guard:

 

I know 8th edition has so far been favoring large Infantry forces, but I just really like the idea of a mechanised force which is hitting hard and fast :) also I am not playing to win any major tournaments, I just wanna have a fighting chance, playing against my friends.

 

 

- So what are your experiences using Mech Guard?

 

- What units did you use and how did they perform?

 

- How much mechanised Infantry should I be aiming for in a 2000 points game? (Infantry, Vets and Scions)

 

- What about flyer support? (Especially the Valkyrie and/or the Vulture)

[Withershadow]

I ran all tanks a few times.  It's a lot of fun, but you need volume of attacks to deal with many opponents, and then you end up losing on objectives because a giant battle tank is < 2 grots when it comes to holding objectives (or even just 1 grot if they have obsec). 

[lash144]

I ran all tanks a few times.  It's a lot of fun, but you need volume of attacks to deal with many opponents, and then you end up losing on objectives because a giant battle tank is < 2 grots when it comes to holding objectives (or even just 1 grot if they have obsec). 

 

Im not talking about an all tank list ;)

Mech Guard is that you mechanise all of your infantry + some armour support.

[MoK]

I run Guard blobs. Scion squad in chimera with a Helhound and Leman Russ, with a Prime. 3 of these blobs. These are the enemy killers. I then have 3 20 man conscript squads each with a Commisar, to hold objectives.

[Halfpint100]

I havent tried full mech guard yet. But my list does include 3 chimeras with 2 X guard squads + plasma gun. A SWS with 3 flamers and a CS with 2 meltaguns, with 2 CC and a commy. 

 

I find they work well and being mobile and very irritating to an opponent. Also takes a fair bit of firepower to remove it all. This costs around 600 points, so is expensive! But i enjoy it

[librisrouge]

Here I think that Krieg have a small advantage. Storm chimeras are great and Grenadiers are just plain better scions, assuming you don't plan on deep striking them. Combined with some artillery and mars-pattern russ, and you've got a list that can at least compete with the majority of things, if not flat out win.

 

Outside of FW, scions themselves have an awesome transport in the Taurox Prime (one of our best units.) Scions themselves make good line troops, with the hot-shot lasgun getting consistently underestimated.

[MoK]

I don't like the look of the Taurus. Give me a Chimera any day.

[Withershadow]

Storm chimeras confound me.  The durability boost is pretty neat, although so far no one has really tried to kill my transports with anti-infantry weapons.  The autocannon looks cool and was king in the previous edition, but hitting on 5+ while on the move is depressing.  I still think as far as shooty chimeras go the Gryphonne variant is the best, and enough people have sung the praises of dual heavy flamer Chimeras for me to start believing them as much as I balk at the weapon's cost.

 

Regarding Grenadiers being better Scions, I don't know about that.  Let's say giving up teleportation is a fair trade for resistance to shooting battle shock, WS3+, and being a point cheaper.  Even considering all that, Krieg lacks the two orders that make Scions sing: FRFSRF for lots of hotshot fire, or Take Aim for overcharging plasma.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Here I think that Krieg have a small advantage. Storm chimeras are great and Grenadiers are just plain better scions, assuming you don't plan on deep striking them. Combined with some artillery and mars-pattern russ, and you've got a list that can at least compete with the majority of things, if not flat out win.

 

Outside of FW, scions themselves have an awesome transport in the Taurox Prime (one of our best units.) Scions themselves make good line troops, with the hot-shot lasgun getting consistently underestimated.

I think  you have a very valid point here. I also think that Krieg gets a boost for a mechanized force. Krieg is definitely set to be an assault themed army. I agree about the Mars pattern Russ.

 

 

Storm chimeras confound me.  The durability boost is pretty neat, although so far no one has really tried to kill my transports with anti-infantry weapons.  The autocannon looks cool and was king in the previous edition, but hitting on 5+ while on the move is depressing.  I still think as far as shooty chimeras go the Gryphonne variant is the best, and enough people have sung the praises of dual heavy flamer Chimeras for me to start believing them as much as I balk at the weapon's cost.

 

Regarding Grenadiers being better Scions, I don't know about that.  Let's say giving up teleportation is a fair trade for resistance to shooting battle shock, WS3+, and being a point cheaper.  Even considering all that, Krieg lacks the two orders that make Scions sing: FRFSRF for lots of hotshot fire, or Take Aim for overcharging plasma.

I completely agree here. I disagree with the claim that grenadiers are better than scions. Now I don't have any concrete evidence to back this up, because gaming in my area is spotty, and I have not yet been able to play 8th. Looking at the way the army is designed, Scions have the edge in firepower and mobility. 

 

I don't play a pure mech list, because I enjoy combined arms far too much, so take my comments for what they're worth...

[PliskinAJ]

I have played a few games with my full mech guard and while right now it was as the beginning of 8th so people had some issues dealing with it. I am a fan of mech guard with line squads, you are trying to get as many chimeras down as possible and the line squads are almost a tax for them. I used to run flamer/autocannon on them as the back hatch let them help throughout the battle. Now if anything it is flamer and a sgt bolter as they would hop out at the last minute or if I plan on having them dismounted at the start flamer h bolter. 

 

Depending on who you face they will either be kitted out for killing big things which means your chimeras will die but prob at most 1 a turn. If you run 7+ like I have you are fine. Otherwise they are probably now more set up for killing squads of infantry then they will not have a great match up trying to kill chimeras. Being charged by orks is a funny site because in a boy blob now you only have to really worry about if they have a claw or not otherwise they wound you on a 6 and you get a 3+ save. As long as you can keep a hole open to get your guys out you have a chance. 

 

My main issue right now is the vehicle once locked in combat can't do much other than try to run away. The last time I played mech guard in 8th I had everyone dismounted and ran the chimeras as essentially 7 heavy weapon teams. It was a hard game.

 

For them to win you need to have things to keep the attention off your biggest weakness, TANKS IN CLOSE COMBAT. In my mech list I didn't use sentinels as my 3 FA slots instead it was 2 rough riders and a hellhound. Then I have 2 full plasma scion teams and a prime to give them orders. The 30 guys in the backfield causes the enemy to change focus and you might get another turn or so of shooting out of your line while being able to assassinate something.

 

So for your questions directly: 

 

- So what are your experiences using Mech Guard?

Its a hard fight but fun. Still trying to figure out the best way. Originally I played my old list expecting it to do poorly and was shocked when it did ok. I am in the process of rebuilding a good sized foot slogging force so my mech is still on the block for retirement. 

 

- What units did you use and how did they perform?

4 line squads (chimera) 

    - got a round or 2 of shooting and die/cut down

2 full scion squads plasma

    - assasans

2 flamer SWS (sharing a chimera)

    - pleasant surprise to pop out and roll 3d6 and a good body guard unit for the lascannons

2 lascannon HWS (sharing a chimera, or mixed with the SWSs)

    - after they dismount they become a prime target

3 earthshaker batteries (you can get 3 for the cost of about 2 baslisks)

    - burst fire lascannons

1 Artemia Pattern Hellhound 

    - rolling 2 dice and picking the highest is worth the points increase.

 

- How much mechanised Infantry should I be aiming for in a 2000 points game? (Infantry, Vets and Scions)

Due to the detachment I want to run 6+

 

- What about flyer support? (Especially the Valkyrie and/or the Vulture)

Since all the chimeras cost so much I find you don't have many points for such things.

[olcottr]

I would definitely mix HWS with SWS, because if the Chimera is destroyed, you have a buffer of 3 regular dudes.

[Jam Master Flex]

I've been using the following Krieg list recently..mainly because it's all the Krieg I have:

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Hellhounds [10 PL, 241pts]

. Devil Dog: Multi-melta, Turret-mounted Melta Cannon

. Hellhound: Multi-melta, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon

 

+ Dedicated Transport +

 

Chimera [5 PL, 109pts]: Heavy Flamer, Heavy Flamer

 

Chimera [5 PL, 109pts]: Heavy Flamer, Heavy Flamer

 

+ HQ +

 

Death Korps Marshal [3 PL, 42pts]: Hot-shot Laspistol, Power sword

 

+ Troops +

 

Death Korps Grenadier Storm Squad [3 PL, 94pts]

. 8x Death Korps Grenadier: 8x Hot-Shot Lasgun

. Grenadier w/Special Weapon: Grenade Launcher

. Grenadier Watch Master: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

 

Death Korps Grenadier Storm Squad [3 PL, 94pts]

. 8x Death Korps Grenadier: 8x Hot-Shot Lasgun

. Grenadier w/Special Weapon: Grenade Launcher

. Grenadier Watch Master: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

 

Death Korps Grenadier Storm Squad [3 PL, 96pts]

. 8x Death Korps Grenadier: 8x Hot-Shot Lasgun

. Grenadier w/Special Weapon: Flamer

. Grenadier Watch Master: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

 

Death Korps Grenadier Storm Squad [3 PL, 96pts]

. 8x Death Korps Grenadier: 8x Hot-Shot Lasgun

. Grenadier w/Special Weapon: Flamer

. Grenadier Watch Master: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

 

+ Elites +

 

Death Korps Combat Engineer Squad [4 PL, 36pts]: Combat Engineers, Combat Engineers, Combat Engineers, Combat Engineers

. Combat Engineer Watch Master: Chainsword, Krieg Combat Shotgun

 

Death Korps Combat Engineer Squad [4 PL, 36pts]: Combat Engineers, Combat Engineers, Combat Engineers, Combat Engineers

. Combat Engineer Watch Master: Chainsword, Krieg Combat Shotgun

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Malcador Infernus [16 PL, 362pts]: 2 Lascannons, Chemical Fuel, Heavy Stubber, Hunter-killer missile

 

Stygies Destroyer Tank Hunter [12 PL, 180pts]

. Styges Destroyer Tank Hunter: Heavy Stubber, Hunter-killer missile

 

++ Total: [71 PL, 1495pts] ++

 

I play against Tau, Primaris/Vanilla Marines and Tyranids.

 

So far I've not lost a game with them, had a few ties but it works relatively well, I drive the hound/dog around and toast anything I don't like the look of.

 

The chimeras shuttle the grenadiers about and I've been using my engineers a similar way, carcuss shotting enemy HQ units and flaming them with the chimera.

 

The Malcador is quite handy as the lascannons can take out tanks and MEQ's equally well and the infernus cannon is brilliant.

 

I have tried to get the titanic explosion on it by driving it into the enemy lines but its cannon just keeps wasting everything in site!

 

Having so much flamer power has been great at stopping my opponents charging my vehicles.

Edited August 29, 2017 by Jam Master Flex

[oldmanlee]

What special weapons teams have people tried in a mech list if any? Or are command team gust a better option

[Halfpint100]

a 3 flamer special weapon squad is useful IMO. bodies to take the hits and the normal BS doesnt matter with flamers

[CoffeeGrunt]

What are people thinking for Veteran Teams with Flamers + Shotguns? Seems kinda handy as you can Advance for an extra D6 range out of the Chimera. Not sure if it has any utility, but it's aggressive.

[PliskinAJ]

I'm on the fence with the flamer vets I have a team that is 3 flamers, h flamer, h bolter, bolter and its 5 points more than my 3 plasma, lascannon vet team. The flamer vets will put out a ton of Str4/5 wounds but it will have issues wounding any MEQs. I have used it against orks and cultists and it vaporizes them but I haven't had a chance yet to cook some marines with it.

[lash144]

Regarding special weapon teams you could take 2 flamers and a demo charge on both teams.