Best Retinue for Lias issodon

[White Hunter]

Hi everyone,

 

New Raptors player here and I was wondering what everyone's thoughts on what the best Retinue is for Lias Issodon. I built my first test list and was primarily focusing on Sternguard as their 15 inch rapid fire range and a heavy weapons options make them a hard hitting alpha strike unit while also getting the - 1 to hit and making charges more difficult. However there are a number of other units that seem to work well including Devestators (Melta and board control) and Vangaurd Vets (th+ss, power weapons and Plasma pistols). Also depending on what units you put with lias what else would be good support forces?

[Race Bannon]

Hello and welcome to Prime!

 

Sternguard make the most sense on paper and idea for the reasons above.  Yet, the Raptors are well known for their pragmatism.  In short, "whatever it takes" may as well be their motto :lol:

 

Go with what you want on a game-by-game basis :tu:

[Lemondish]

Things like Grav devastators are a good option. Grav is really good, except for the range, so deploying forward with Lias removes that con. Same with multi-meltas.

 

Sternguard with special issue bolters, an LT with Storm of Fire, and the Sternguard strat might be really good as well.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Lemondish

[SkimaskMohawk]

Veterans with plasma guns for the best all around damage and points saving.

 

Any heavy weapon has the -1 to hit since it's a deepstrike, unlike sfts, so you lose value.

 

Vanguard vets are also better deployed with sfts since you can move after

[Lemondish]

Veterans with plasma guns for the best all around damage and points saving.

 

Any heavy weapon has the -1 to hit since it's a deepstrike, unlike sfts, so you lose value.

 

Vanguard vets are also better deployed with sfts since you can move after

 

Good point on the heavy weapon thing, but you are deploying with a chapter master so you can reroll all your misses, which isn't something you'd be doing with SFTS without costing you more CP. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

I did the math in one of the other threads, and even with the reroll grav is too niche against marines, while Melta only does 15ish wounds to ground t7 3+. That might seem like a lot, but when plasma does 12 wounds, it means they both kill the same vehicles, while Melta not being able to whack land raiders or flyers.

 

Idk, the points saving and the versatility of the plasma makes it a no brainer. Grav is probably the best after plasma, but it has a more specific role

[Sharrowkyn]

What do people think of Honour Guards now their rule lets them take wounds on a 2+ for characters? Loadout and equipment is pretty limited, would love the option for jump packs, terminator armour and lightening claws! Seems a good choice for a Warlord though as gives a possible 4 extra wounds per 2 Honour Guard!?

[Firenze]

I personally use a sternguard squad with special issue bolters, powerfist and running with an apothecary, all running alongside a squadron of predators. Re-rolls for allllll!!!!

[SkimaskMohawk]

What do people think of Honour Guards now their rule lets them take wounds on a 2+ for characters? Loadout and equipment is pretty limited, would love the option for jump packs, terminator armour and lightening claws! Seems a good choice for a Warlord though as gives a possible 4 extra wounds per 2 Honour Guard!?

Plasma command has the same rule, albiet less wounds per dude

Edited August 28, 2017 by SkimaskMohawk

[Alcyon]

Lot of discussion of this over in this thread: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334817-new-issodon-rules-sneaky-peaky/

 

I've been thinking this over today after realizing I may want to focus more on Raptors. I'd always been struggling with Lias' ability as it has some key limitations vs. SftS, namely being unable to infiltrate Primaris and counting as moving. Then I thought, well, infiltrating Lias himself is plenty good, and maybe it's not so bad to "waste" his ability since he's not too expensive points-wise anyway and you get a bunch of other rules.

 

But then I realized if it's good to be able to infiltrate him alone in a turn of your choice in order to buff a shooty squad (also protects him from early game snipers), it's also a way to infiltrate other buffing characters that would usually be tough to get up-board without a bike, transport or Drop Pod (all things I'd like to avoid, for modelling or points concerns.) So my new plan is Lias brings along a Company Ancient with the relic banner, an Apothecary to heal my Primaris, namely Hellblasters (more efficient healing multi-wound models), and a Lieutenant to help my Aggressors wound. Then I can use SftS to get my Primaris up the board and into cover, and then pop the characters up to buff them, supporting it all with quick on-board units like bikes.

 

It was just a big shift for me as I'd always thought of his ability as a way to move up big squads, and I think the options for that are pretty limited with Plasma Gun Command Squads being limited by their 12" rapid-fire range (hurting the -1 to hit buff) and Sternguard not being the best value.

[White Hunter]

Lot of discussion of this over in this thread: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334817-new-issodon-rules-sneaky-peaky/

 

I've been thinking this over today after realizing I may want to focus more on Raptors. I'd always been struggling with Lias' ability as it has some key limitations vs. SftS, namely being unable to infiltrate Primaris and counting as moving. Then I thought, well, infiltrating Lias himself is plenty good, and maybe it's not so bad to "waste" his ability since he's not too expensive points-wise anyway and you get a bunch of other rules.

 

But then I realized if it's good to be able to infiltrate him alone in a turn of your choice in order to buff a shooty squad (also protects him from early game snipers), it's also a way to infiltrate other buffing characters that would usually be tough to get up-board without a bike, transport or Drop Pod (all things I'd like to avoid, for modelling or points concerns.) So my new plan is Lias brings along a Company Ancient with the relic banner, an Apothecary to heal my Primaris, namely Hellblasters (more efficient healing multi-wound models), and a Lieutenant to help my Aggressors wound. Then I can use SftS to get my Primaris up the board and into cover, and then pop the characters up to buff them, supporting it all with quick on-board units like bikes.

 

It was just a big shift for me as I'd always thought of his ability as a way to move up big squads, and I think the options for that are pretty limited with Plasma Gun Command Squads being limited by their 12" rapid-fire range (hurting the -1 to hit buff) and Sternguard not being the best value.

I am actually planning a hybrid similar to what you suggest, right now I am planning on infiltrating Lias, 2x Sternguard, and a basic captain or lieutenant . These are to go alongside a 10 man Hellbalster Squad using SFTS. Depending upon mission and deployment this either makes a huge fireball mid board or creates two brutal shooting units for my opponent to deal with at separate places on the board.

[Lemondish]

 

Lot of discussion of this over in this thread: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334817-new-issodon-rules-sneaky-peaky/

 

I've been thinking this over today after realizing I may want to focus more on Raptors. I'd always been struggling with Lias' ability as it has some key limitations vs. SftS, namely being unable to infiltrate Primaris and counting as moving. Then I thought, well, infiltrating Lias himself is plenty good, and maybe it's not so bad to "waste" his ability since he's not too expensive points-wise anyway and you get a bunch of other rules.

 

But then I realized if it's good to be able to infiltrate him alone in a turn of your choice in order to buff a shooty squad (also protects him from early game snipers), it's also a way to infiltrate other buffing characters that would usually be tough to get up-board without a bike, transport or Drop Pod (all things I'd like to avoid, for modelling or points concerns.) So my new plan is Lias brings along a Company Ancient with the relic banner, an Apothecary to heal my Primaris, namely Hellblasters (more efficient healing multi-wound models), and a Lieutenant to help my Aggressors wound. Then I can use SftS to get my Primaris up the board and into cover, and then pop the characters up to buff them, supporting it all with quick on-board units like bikes.

 

It was just a big shift for me as I'd always thought of his ability as a way to move up big squads, and I think the options for that are pretty limited with Plasma Gun Command Squads being limited by their 12" rapid-fire range (hurting the -1 to hit buff) and Sternguard not being the best value.

I am actually planning a hybrid similar to what you suggest, right now I am planning on infiltrating Lias, 2x Sternguard, and a basic captain or lieutenant . These are to go alongside a 10 man Hellbalster Squad using SFTS. Depending upon mission and deployment this either makes a huge fireball mid board or creates two brutal shooting units for my opponent to deal with at separate places on the board.

I'd suggest a LT. Being a Chapter Master, Lias has reroll to hit baked in. The LT gives you reroll 1s to wound. I think the Storm of Fire Warlord trait, and the special issue bolters all wrapped up and topped with the Sternguard stratagem could be really cool.