Helsreach - the Book.

[Stemplar]

Just finished it. Obviously it now serves as the bible for all things Templar.

I was inspired to read it because if the awesome videos that we've all seen by now. Loved every word on every page.

As a side note: in 'Blood and Fire' (which I also read as part of 'Armageddon') Grimaldus says, "The Emperor is no God."

Wait. I thought ...

[Kontakt]

 

As a side note: in 'Blood and Fire' (which I also read as part of 'Armageddon') Grimaldus says, "The Emperor is no God."

 

Wait. I thought ...

Lore changes. Not everyone likes the changes, and we don't necessarily have to like the changes, but GW still likes to change the lore.

[Honda]

I've read the book end to end, at least a half dozen times. Some sections even more than that.

 

What I appreciate about the writing is how a lot of the smaller details and characters shine like little jewels once you've been through the book once.

[Zeruvar]

I cant remember where I read it but GW commented that the books (thus the lore) are to be taken from the view point of the individual writer. Imagine as if they where from Imperial guard/citizens seeing the events unfold in front of them, without having clear records of the full history of events.

 

This makes it that not all the lore are necessarily the same since they all end up having to go through personnal interpretation.

 

In my headcannon, I am still on the 4th ed Templar views on the emperor where he is the Epitome of man thus a great man, but still a man and not god. It was in one of the BT books, but if you read Eternal Crusader the BTs refer to emps as a god in that one.

Edited August 29, 2017 by Zeruvar

[Ebon Hand]

Same here Zeruvar. There are bound to be inaccuracies, rumor and mystique surrounding a chapter that is fleet based and hard to find not on the front lines. Even our Fortress Monasteries that left behind on planets are in hard to reach, remote locations.

 

There's also bound to be differences of opinion between Black Templars themselves as to what the Emperor now is. Some may revere him as a man but with no less zeal for battle than one who sees him as a literal god.

 

Helsreach gave me the sense that Black Templars worship battle more than anything. They crave that "beautiful death" in service to the Emperor.

[Castellan Doren]

Same here Zeruvar. There are bound to be inaccuracies, rumor and mystique surrounding a chapter that is fleet based and hard to find not on the front lines. Even our Fortress Monasteries that left behind on planets are in hard to reach, remote locations.

 

There's also bound to be differences of opinion between Black Templars themselves as to what the Emperor now is. Some may revere him as a man but with no less zeal for battle than one who sees him as a literal god.

 

Helsreach gave me the sense that Black Templars worship battle more than anything. They crave that "beautiful death" in service to the Emperor.

I imagine the differences are part of what separates one crusade from another, beyond combat friendship.

[Stemplar]

I've read the book end to end, at least a half dozen times. Some sections even more than that.

 

What I appreciate about the writing is how a lot of the smaller details and characters shine like little jewels once you've been through the book once.

Yes!!! Loved it. Andrej is fantastic. The Princeps concept as pilot of the Knight, a walking cathedral, is incredible.

 

Equally I loved the insight I to how Grimaldus gained his mantle in 'Blood and Fire'.

[Kelborn]

Just got it back from a friend and I have to admit, I'm really tempted to read it again. Besides Brotherhood of the Snake (don't know why, I'm just loving it ^^), Helsreach is the one I've read the most thus far.

 

Love Andrej as well. Aaron really got a talent for those sidekicks.

 

Regarding BTs and the Emperor being a god:

 

Guy Haley's take on them reminded me so much more of medieval knight orders and crusaders. Aaron's Templars are more like zealous Space Marines, who venerate THE leader of all time but not as a god. More like a rolemodel. Through battle, they pay their respects to Him.

 

Love both versions and I believe that both versions are still effective. Crusade XY could see the Emperor as a god, while Crusade AB venerates him as the perfect warrior. It all depends on their chaplains ideology and conviction.

[Zeruvar]

Thats the thing I like about the chapter. Not having a solid number of Battle-brothers for the whole chapter and the fluidity of crusading fleets makes it easy to have your own interpretation of what your own Black Templar crusade is. Because at the end of the day we just want to defeat the enemies of mankind.

 

Blood and fire was a nice surprise too. The way the IG act around Grimaldus (and him being indifferent, but not discouraging their actions) before Helsreach and after brings a tear to my eye.

[Medjugorje]

sorry to interrupt you but its still a book before the great change of games workshop.

 

Even in Helsreach the BT had been religious and believe in the emperor as a god... Worst of them all is that Helsreach isnt official fluff anymore!!

[redmapa]

 

Even in Helsreach the BT had been religious and believe in the emperor as a god... 

 

No, Helsreach, and the Black Templar codex, only made the chapter's dogma to be that they venerate the Emperor more than other chapters, up to what point they worshiped him was left up in the air for YOU to decide but they were never explicit about it.

[Zeruvar]

sorry to interrupt you but its still a book before the great change of games workshop.

 

Even in Helsreach the BT had been religious and believe in the emperor as a god... Worst of them all is that Helsreach isnt official fluff anymore!!

HERESY!

 

But yeah there's too many changes I may not have read recently and I just go with my own headcannon and stick to the one I know. And really? they made the Helsreach fluff unofficial? ouch... I've just recently come to terms that GW is making it seem like the Templars are actually just around codex size and now this? I'll just pretend that my crusade never heard that at all.

[SydonianDragoon404]

Wait a second, where does Grimaldus say the Emperor is no god? He literally threatens the Crone of the Invigilata in Helsreach with death for even implying that the Emperor isn't a god..

[Kontakt]

 

But yeah there's too many changes I may not have read recently and I just go with my own headcannon and stick to the one I know. And really? they made the Helsreach fluff unofficial? ouch... I've just recently come to terms that GW is making it seem like the Templars are actually just around codex size and now this? I'll just pretend that my crusade never heard that at all.

 

Index Imperium: 1 states numbers in the thousands. They have backtracked in our favour. The sky is not falling.

[Stemplar]

Wait a second, where does Grimaldus say the Emperor is no god? He literally threatens the Crone of the Invigilata in Helsreach with death for even implying that the Emperor isn't a god..

In the two-for-one book 'Armageddon' there's a shorter story called Blood and Fire in which he says 'The Emperor is no God.'

[Zeller]

I felt the BT were very aloof towards humanity in this book, especially when the Salamanders came into the picture. That said, I understand and fully support the BT purity of purpose - destroy all enemies of the Imperium. The Salamanders care about its people to the extent that they might choose not to pursue a military action that will create a better strategic place for the Imperium in the future. The Black Templars stop at nothing to eradicate all threats. They're a good dichotomy. 

 

I wasn't ecstatic about Helsreach on my read through, but, after the videos and seeing how pumped folks get, I'll have to give it another read.

[Zeruvar]

 

Wait a second, where does Grimaldus say the Emperor is no god? He literally threatens the Crone of the Invigilata in Helsreach with death for even implying that the Emperor isn't a god..

In the two-for-one book 'Armageddon' there's a shorter story called Blood and Fire in which he says 'The Emperor is no God.'

 

 

A good time as any to read Armageddon again. Thanks I'll keep an eye out for this

[Medjugorje]

 

 

Even in Helsreach the BT had been religious and believe in the emperor as a god... 

 

No, Helsreach, and the Black Templar codex, only made the chapter's dogma to be that they venerate the Emperor more than other chapters, up to what point they worshiped him was left up in the air for YOU to decide but they were never explicit about it.

 

in the book not, but in terms of fluff ( i mean actually) they did.

[Medjugorje]

Wait a second, where does Grimaldus say the Emperor is no god? He literally threatens the Crone of the Invigilata in Helsreach with death for even implying that the Emperor isn't a god..

he said that in Helsreach (book) - but like i said before... it isnt actually fluff and so he never used to say that. Beside the fact that he is still the hero of helsreach. So you can see the book like you want to see it but in terms of official fluff it happened different.

[Mmmmm Napalm]

Personally, I don't mind the Templars being actually religious. I understand why people dislike the retcon, but personally I don't have a problem with it. I like that it differentiates them from other chapters, aside from the Fire Angels of course.

[Medjugorje]

me too

[HighMarshalAlex]

I liked the idea of Black Templars being super zealous crusading atheists. It turned the done-to-death Crusader trope on it's head and made it interesting. It made them different from other Crusader factions in other fictional universes. The new fluff just makes them bland imo