If Dorn returns... How?

[Urriak Urruk]

Ok, so I’ve been thinking about loyalist Primarchs and how they are to return. GW likely to make as many Primarchs return as they can, simply because they’ll sell and make more $. Knowing this, I’ve been thinking about Dorn, and how if he were to return, how he could do so in a way that was plausible, interesting and not still following the previous lore. He’s already been hinted at as alive in the Beast Arises series, though I have struggled to find a way to meet the above metrics.

 

My favorite theory had been that Dorn faked his death so he could return to the Imperial Palace, take the place of the Custodian General and never leave the side of his father. This though falls flat now that Guilliman has entered the throne room, as he would have caught his cosplaying brother.

 

So here’s my best attempt at a Dorn return.

 

Dorn intends to die. He has watched his father die. He has been humiliated by his fallen brother. His legion has been broken. The dream for humanity is forever lost. All that remains is an honorable death, one to end his pain and leave a memory for his gene-sons to strive over.

 

The Primarch fights a tide of traitor Astartes in the midst of a boarding action. His gene-sons are dead. Only Dorn lives, and with the wild abandon of a man who no longer wants to breathe. The endless foes wear him down. He has been cut in dozens of places. His armor is broken and battered. Dorn watches an axe take his hand, and doesn’t care.

 

Dorn watches the final blow come, and is happy. Finally, release.

 

But it never lands. For the Emperor’s light breaks into Dorn’s mind, the very voice of his father commanding him to fight, that Dorn’s role is not yet fulfilled in the Master of Mankind’s plan. The Emperor unlocks the shackles within Dorn’s mind, releasing the psychic potential within.

 

Dorn awakens. The traitors assaulting him are all dead, the dozens of bodies smoking like burnt meat. Dorn can feel his brain tingling, can feel the warp like a shadow, a presence he did not truly notice before. But more importantly, the memory of his father’s voice lingers.

 

The Primarch flees the battle, leaving his dismembered hand. The Imperium and traitors will think him dead, and Dorn wants it so. For Dorn knows he is now a psyker, perhaps rivaling in strength of Lorgar during the Heresy. His brothers might think him mad or corrupted, his own sons such as Sigismund would be horrified.

 

Dorn arrives at his homeworld of Inwit, and enters his abandoned palace. There on this world will Dorn explore his new abilities. He wanders the frozen wastes of this world, where he cannot attract attention. He summons daemons and slays them. He peers into the past, from Old Night to the Eldar Empire to the war between Necrontyr and Old Ones. He reaches into the warp to talk to his deceased brothers’ souls. He hurls fire and lightning from his hands, forms beautiful sculptures out of light. He rages at his father’s immense warp presence for answers that never come.

 

Every time the Primarch’s mind is exhausted, he retreats back to his palace, and his Pain Glove. There he receives penance and solace, in thought-ending pain. Sometimes he will remain there for years at a time.

 

Millennia pass. Dorn leaves his palace and looks to the sky. The Great Rift stretches across the galaxy. The Archangel of the Imperium is ready for his destiny.

 

PHEW. Ok, that’s my best shot. If you can do one better, please do, I’m not entirely satisfied with this (can anyone really spend 10,000 years torturing themselves and training magic?) So please, flush any ideas you got here, even completely different ones.

 

One more thing. If you’re tempted to simply reply with “Dorn shouldn’t return,” try to resist that urge. I totally get it, from a narrative perspective it really makes more sense if he just died. But I’m trying see if there is a way for Dorn to return without it being really dumb, as GW’s probably going to jump the shark with it.

 

 

[Jagus Kumkani]

I'm not caught up on the fluff pertaining to everything 40k or Dorn for that matter. But I think your theory sounds plausible. It's definitely something that would rock the Imperial Fists and all of its successors. This could be some great story-telling on GW's part if they went this route.

[mathaius]

Personally i'm not a fan of the "Dorn, you're a wizard" part, since Dorn was against psykers at Nikaea. The rest is superb though.

I think it would fit more its character if he was left for dead during the boarding action, then subsequently tries to highjack the ship (Lysander escaped from an entire IW PLANET, so i think conquering a ship might be within a Primarch's realm of possibilities) and tries to steer it. This fails and he come up stranded somewhere out of the Imperium's reach. Maybe he lands on a primitive world and sets out to carve its own empire a la Inwit 2.0 until he can rejoin the Imperium.

[Stoic Raptor]

Yeah, if he becomes a psyker, one of his powers would have to be elongating his limbs, because that's a reeeeaaal stretch. ;)

[Mr Smith]

Don't bring any more Primarchs back.  Bringing Guilliman back was bad enough.  Let the others remain the legends that they are.

[Volt]

There's no reason why Dorn simply couldn't be drifting in space. Space Marines can survive basically anything when they enter their coma, and it should be no different for a genetically superior Primarch. Dorn's ship gets blown up, he gets thrown clear of the wreck and drifts in space for ten thousand years. Nobody finds him because space is big. He either burns into some planet and crashes on the surface or is picked up by a ship that finally finds him.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

[Aramis K]

So long as he returns with a black power fist I'm happy.

 

Like this chap off the 2nd ed cover, but big n yellow. (Bored of gold)

 

http://i.imgur.com/toVcWeS.jpg

[Machine God]

So Dorn flees from the battle?

 

ATSKNF?

 

Imagine what the Black Templars will think...

[Mellow]

Whilst I applaud your effort. I'm not supportive of him becoming a massive psyker. Running from battle and the rest of it.

 

I feel they wouldn't bring a "builder" Primarch back next anyway. They have one already.

[Urriak Urruk]

Personally i'm not a fan of the "Dorn, you're a wizard" part, since Dorn was against psykers at Nikaea. The rest is superb though.

I think it would fit more its character if he was left for dead during the boarding action, then subsequently tries to highjack the ship (Lysander escaped from an entire IW PLANET, so i think conquering a ship might be within a Primarch's realm of possibilities) and tries to steer it. This fails and he come up stranded somewhere out of the Imperium's reach. Maybe he lands on a primitive world and sets out to carve its own empire a la Inwit 2.0 until he can rejoin the Imperium.

Thanks! The reason I picked Dorn becoming a psyker is that he's so against it. I think the most realistic way for Dorn to be missing for 10 thousand years is if he's choosing to be away. So I thought him becoming a psyker is a good way to horrify himself so much he chooses isolation.

 

The boarding action/lost in space ideas I like, but I still struggle against that 10,000 years. If he's creating his own new empire and actively trying to return to the Imperium, I think he can do it in 10,000 years.

 

As for lost in space or crashed on an abandoned planet... it just seeems like lazy writing to me. It's firstly a really boring explanation, and secondly simply allows Dorn to return "deux ex machina" style, and thirdly his character isn't changed in any way.

 

Also I suppose "flee the battle" was the wrong choice of words. Dorn's not running away because he's afraid of traitors or anything like that, it's more of a case of feeling horrified at himself and how his gene-sons would react if they learned he's a psyker.

 

And the Emperor's Text to Speech was my favourite "Dorn return scenario" but now Guilliman's return ruined it.

 

"I see you in that Centurion armour, Dorn."

"Did father cut off your life-support?"

"I was saved by an Eldar before he could."

"HAHAHAHAHA"

"Stop that. It doesn't suit you,"

"I am fully capable of the laughter."

Edited August 30, 2017 by Urriak Urruk

[Jagus Kumkani]

 

Personally i'm not a fan of the "Dorn, you're a wizard" part, since Dorn was against psykers at Nikaea. The rest is superb though.

I think it would fit more its character if he was left for dead during the boarding action, then subsequently tries to highjack the ship (Lysander escaped from an entire IW PLANET, so i think conquering a ship might be within a Primarch's realm of possibilities) and tries to steer it. This fails and he come up stranded somewhere out of the Imperium's reach. Maybe he lands on a primitive world and sets out to carve its own empire a la Inwit 2.0 until he can rejoin the Imperium.

Thanks! The reason I picked Dorn becoming a psyker is that he's so against it. I think the most realistic way for Dorn to be missing for 10 thousand years is if he's choosing to be away. So I thought him becoming a psyker is a good way to horrify himself so much he chooses isolation.

 

The boarding action/lost in space ideas I like, but I still struggle against that 10,000 years. If he's creating his own new empire and actively trying to return to the Imperium, I think he can do it in 10,000 years.

 

As for lost in space or crashed on an abandoned planet... it just seeems like lazy writing to me. It's firstly a really boring explanation, and secondly simply allows Dorn to return "deux ex machina" style, and thirdly his character isn't changed in any way.

 

Also I suppose "flee the battle" was the wrong choice of words. Dorn's not running away because he's afraid of traitors or anything like that, it's more of a case of feeling horrified at himself and how his gene-sons would react if they learned he's a psyker.

 

And the Emperor's Text to Speech was my favourite "Dorn return scenario" but now Guilliman's return ruined it.

 

"I see you in that Centurion armour, Dorn."

"Did father cut off your life-support?"

"I was saved by an Eldar before he could."

"HAHAHAHAHA"

"Stop that. It doesn't suit you,"

"I am fully capable of the laughter."

 

The only reason I was remotely interested in this was because of the change in character. Dorn a psyker?! Think about what that would mean to him and his sons...

Anything else sounds poorly thought out. But then again, thats just my opinion and I'm no BL writer.

[Sete]

With GW fluff quality? Leave him dead.

We will soon enough see the Lion bending the knee to Guilliman.

[Claws and Effect]

I'm of the opinion that all the Primarchs are at least latent psykers.

 

Magnus, Sanguinius, Curze, and to a lesser extent Corax all displayed active psyker abilities. It's not much of a stretch to assume that the potential existed in all of them.

 

Perhaps the ones with latent potential had to have it unlocked by another psyker.

 

I don't know if I'd go so far as Dorn suddenly being a Lorgar or Magnus level psyker, but I could see him acquiring some minor abilities.

 

It would also be interesting from a story standpoint to see the Templars' zeal leading them to disavow their own Primarch in disgust. I think the Fists would be more willing to accept it, as both chapters employ Librarians.

 

Edit: Forgot Mortarion. He was a psyker too, he just hated that he was and never used his ability.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Claws and Effect

[Urriak Urruk]

I got the psyker idea mostly from recent fluff that hints that the Primarchs are all latent psykers, and only Magnus was able to explore it without outside assistance.

 

Lorgar got help from the Chaos Gods, and Mortarion from Papa Nurgle. Guilliman also knows the Emperor's sword shouldn't turn to fire unless he's a latent psyker.

 

So Dorn being a psyker makes some sense too, though it would require the Emperor to intervene directly.

[Claws and Effect]

Sanguinius and Curze were both prescient. And Corax's wraith-slip was certainly a psychic power, since it worked directly on your mind and machines were unaffected.

 

I'm also going to go out on a limb and say Vulkan being a perpetual is how his ability manifested.

 

It's not always the ability to throw warp fire or read minds.

 

Perhaps Fulgrim was such a good duelist because he knew exactly what his opponent was going to do and he was using a psychic ability without realizing it.

 

It would be ironic if Lion and Russ had psychic Wonder Twin powers that could only be used when they were together.

[Ebon Hand]

The Black Templars would surely never disavow their own Primarch, that would be tantamount to heresy.

 

Dorn coming out as a psyker feels like a bit of a stretch as well. His very nature is more a physical one, much more in tune with humanity than many other Primarchs. Not that it is impossible, it just feels forced and hard to believe given that he never displayed anything extraordinary even for a Primarch, unlike Magnus, Corax, Vulkan and Sanguinius.

 

I'd imagine him openly returning only when Peturabo shows himself, with some sort of bionics to replace his hand (most fittingly a power fist, maybe even the Emperor's). Peturabo would probably only show when it's time to assault the Imperial palace, making it a rematch to settle the question Fulgrim asked once and for all.

[Damo1701]

I know it's rather simple, but, what about a classic that, if well written by one of the BL authors, we have Dorn and a contingent of Fists explode from the Warp, after having captured a ship.

 

Maybe right into the path of Guilliman, and, thinking that the length of time that has passed is insignificant due to the brotherly presence, he somewhat suffers when he discovers just what has happened during his short jaunt in the Warp.

 

I think the Psyker angle is too much for somebody who was so set against having psykers in the legions.

 

While warp-time-anomolies don't factor in such a large scale in the novels, and are hinted at being possible throughout many editions, it's largely ignored unless in fan-fiction.

[Wargamer]

I think many of us will not accept any explanation other than the TTS version. Dorn escaped by being dead in pretend and took a ten thousand year vow of silence to atone for his failures.

[Boldthreat]

Well, Dorn is dead.  And he should stay dead.

 

The only way I would accept this... is if Rogal Dorn mysteriously returns to a post Guilliman Imperium.  At first all of the sons of Dorn rejoice and flock to the Phalanx in the Phall system.  The Imperial Fists and their escorts link up with the Ultramarines Primarch and all seems great for the imperium as they conquer more and more worlds and defend the imperium.  Whilst on their way back to Terra (so Dorn can also communicate with his Father) half of the Imperial Fists and Successors become aware that something is not right with their returned Lord.  Quickly accusations and counter accusations began to appear and half of the Fists believe he is an Impostor.  A Civil War erupts on the Phalanx and the Fleet as it travels the Warp back to Terra.  Brother kills Brother, culminating in a confrontation with Rogal Dorn... who turns out to be Alpharius (Omegon really) in a devious warp fueled plot to destroy the Imperial Fists and get close enough to kill the Emperor.

 

The good guys win the day, Omegon flees the Warp just in time to become a new big bad that everyone has to worry about, and the Imperial Fists and successors have to rebuild and swear an oath of vengeance to slay the Warlord Alpharius.  They also embark on a Penitent crusade for ever believing that their true Lord Rogal Dorn would ever have hidden in some 10,000 year subterfuge... and finally acknowledge that he did die on the Sword of Sacrilege... doing what Space Marines should be doing.

 

The end.

[Ciler]

I like your idea and find it well written, but much as others I'm sceptical at the idea of making him a very potent psyker. i fully agree to the notion that all primarchs have some level of psychic power (even Russ who uses a psychic blast while screaming on Shrike in A Thousand Sons), but Dorm as mainly a psyker doesn"t quite sound "right" to me. He's a builder and siege master first and foremost, and maybe it's that angle that should be explored. During that fight Dorn gets captured/incapacitated but eventually escapes and for the past 10 000 years has been building something. What though ? A massive space fortress much like Phalanx could be an interesting idea, considering that Phalanx itself is quite battered and damaged.

 

On a different note, if/when more loyalist primarchs are released, I don't think Dorn would be very high up on the list because he simply isn't as popular as - say - the Lion or Russ, and also in many aspects very similar to Guilliman (he's a backfield leader). I expect the release of a more "independent character" type primarch, Lion, Russ, the Khan or Corax before vanilla marines get another administrator. 

[Claws and Effect]

Lion or Russ will be next, based on the fact that we KNOW Lion is alive and there are strong hints that Russ is too.

 

Dorn, Sanguinius, and Ferrus Manus should stay dead.

 

I did have an idea for Curze though: Malal brings him back as a warp entity that can sometimes manifest in real space.

[Emicus]

Hopefully he hasnt been hanging outsomewhere with his ...armstumps up his bottom?.. uhh.. as that would ruin a lot of the "stoic bloke doing what needs doing" thing for me.

​I like the idea he's been captured and tortured for 10.000 years. Sort of a pain glove 2.0. Maybe even been forgotten in some hellish dungeon somewhere and the servitordemons or whatever are finally running down enough for him to escape, or be discovered.

If he's been "broken" by the senseless torture as well that'd be an interesting character development. I don't mean completely looney, marines can compartmentalise their mind, right? So perhaps part of his mind is borked, and the rest is his usual self. This could be represented perhaps by fits of uncontrollable rage? Just spitballing.

[GAZ_AV_NZ]

Dorns hand/s were cut off by Omegon (alpharius twin )

Who is now Alpharius during the scouring

 

Dorn killed the original Alpharius during the Alphas strike on pluto and cut both his hands off so he was avenged by Omegon later in the future

As to what Omegon did with him is unknown

With the necron collector taking people, or other chaos groups taking them its unknown

The cabal may be involved? Or dark eldar?

 

The beast arises while poorly written in parts but had alot of primarch tibits so its quite a treasure trove in someways

Vulkan cannot die but has alot pf psychological issues from dying many times

A primarch would be better having been in stasis

Living for 000s of years is hard mentally

 

Beast arises confirmed dorn isnt in webway

The webway entrance to earth was stable

No chaos daemon armies there

But noted webway was weaker near entrance and eldrad didnt want to hang around

 

Hopefully the scouring book series after the horus heresy tidys this up as to who took dorn after his hand/s were cut off while he raided a chaos capital ship

 

Intresting

But yes as said gw cashcow likely

Hopefully the fluff behind it matches the intricate hh story line

If gw writers ignore the past stories and links and write random stories it will be very dissappointing

[tdemayo]

How about... Dark Eldar pirates raid the Phalanx and make off with Dorn's hand. A few years later, Dorn appears, looking grim and haggard, trailed by a few homonculi "attendants." Once back on the Phalanx, he encourages the Fists to spend a lot more time in the Pain Glove. He seems so much livlier for a few days each time after he attends their "penance" sessions. Edited September 10, 2017 by tdemayo