Overwatch with enemy models within 1"

[SupersexyJohn]

I tried searching but couldn't find the answer.

 

Lets say someone declares a charge.

 

Each time a charge is declared against a unit, the target unit

can immediately fire Overwatch at the would-be attacker.

A target unit can potentially fire Overwatch several

times a turn, though it cannot fire if there are any enemy

models within 1" of it.

 

Lets say I do have someone within an 1" and have pistols

 

A model can fire a Pistol even if there are

enemy units within 1" of its own unit, but

it must target the closest enemy unit. In

such circumstances, the model can shoot

its Pistol even if other friendly units are

within 1" of the same enemy unit.

 

So I do get to shoot?

 

If I do get to shoot, who do I shoot at? One says the the would-be attacker and the other says the closest enemy unit.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

[Kastor Krieg]

1) Don't make the mistake of "3 units charge unit A, so I declare charge for #1 > overwatch on it > move it the charge distance > etc". 

You declare charges and do overwatch FIRST against ALL charging units. There are two separate Charge and Combat subphases now. You move only "after any Overwatch is resolved" and Overwatch happens immediately "each time a charge is declared againts a unit".

This way you will never end up in the situation of "Oh, he charged this unit into mine and it's in 1", so now I can't fire overwatch into his other two charging units. Never happens. Overwatch first, for all chargers, then move the charge distance.

 

2) If you already have a unit in 1", for example from an ongoing combat, and next turn another unit charges you, you cannot fire Overwatch. You have a unit in 1".

 

3) Pistols are for firing into combat, in the Shooting phase. So, you don't only beat them with sticks in Fight, but also fire pistols in Shooting. That's the only exception and NOT permission to fire Overwatch.

4) If someone attempts to charge you from within 1", they've done something illegal before - you cannot be in 1" from an enemy unit unless you're already fighting them. Such a charge is not possible.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Kastor Krieg

[Ciler]

Your point 1 is incorrect, brother Krieg. You do the process for each unit one by one :

1. choose an eligible unit
2. announce charge for that unit
3. overwatch (if applicable)
4. charge move
5. go back to 1 for next unit.

Otherwise, as for supersexyjohn's initial question : no, it doesn't matter if the unit has pistols. When there's an enemy unit within 1" you cannot fire overwatch, the rule is quite clear, you quoted it yourself :

 

A target unit can potentially fire Overwatch several
times a turn, though it cannot fire if there are any enemy
models within 1" of it.

 

The pistol rule certainly allows to bypass that restriction, but only allows you to fire at the nearest enemy unit (the one within 1") instead of the charging unit. So the conditions for shooting are not matched (i.e. you can't actually target the charging unit).

[Jacinda]

 

One says the the would-be attacker and the other says the closest enemy unit.

 

 

The only time you could use pistols in overwatch while an enemy is within 1" is if both of those conditions are met by the target.  While it might be possible for some future codex to allow a unit to charge even if already within 1" but it doesn't exist now.

 

I agree with Ciler.  Any time a unit would be given the option to fire, the Pistol rule would allow it to be fired with an enemy within 1".  Some phychic powers will cause this to happen outside of the shooting phase for example.  However, it does not let the unit chose a different target.  Since the nearest unit is not a valid target for over watch and the charging uniut is not a valid target for Pistols rule, there is no valid target at all.

[Eddie Orlock]

So, now it's corner case time. Can we fulfill all the criteria?

 

Suppose we had a sufficiently large squad of pistol wielding troops. Perhaps a ten-strong squad of Seraphim?

 

Now, imagine for what ever reason we had them strung out in a relatively dispersed formation taking full advantage of their coherency rules. Perhaps they're holding two objectives at the same time?

 

Next, imagine two fast moving enemy units close in, one on either end of the formation, close enough for stubby little two inch charges. First the 'Phim get shocked on one side and they overwatch with their pistols. All well and good.

 

Then they get charged on the far side of the unit. Now we've constructed a case with a pistol wielding model whose unit is within an inch of the enemy, but who is closer to the charger than the unit that's already in combat with their unit.

 

Do we now carefully survey at the start of the charge to see which gunslingers are closer to the new charge and only allow the limited pool of those that are to overwatch with their pistols?

 

So, in rare cases with weird, flanky, geometry, this shot may be possible.

[Gentlemanloser]

If they were streached in a line and the right end had been charged.

 

Isn't the unit closer to the already charged unit (as they are now within 1"), then the second charging unit on the left end, which is still 2" away.

 

Even though individual models on the left end are closer to the 2" enemy unit then the 1" chargers.

 

The unit as a whole is said to be closer to the original chargers?

[Eddie Orlock]

The unit as a whole is said to be closer to the original chargers?

Interestingly, the closest target if the unit is engaged within an inch clause on pistols is not written per unit, but rather per model. Which means the models that are closer to the original chargers can't shoot because of conflicting requirements, but that the models closer to the new chargers can.

 

You know, this might actually have far reaching if subtle implications as an odd rules result from here out? There are many units that have a pistol as a side arm. Could mean an extra two or three pistol shots on average in every game from here on out to the end of the edition?

[Gentlemanloser]

Oh my. That's a strange distinction. GW should have left it as per unit, not per model.

[Ciler]

I'm afraid that's one of those niche cases where strictly applying rules as written effectively contradicts rules as intended.