Air cav tips

[oldmanlee]

Hi fellow guard players

 

Has anyone tried a air cav list yet in 8th is it worth running at all?

[Halfpint100]

Not here. I use mech guard. I have been tempted to use bullgrins in a valk for that turn 1 charge with power mauls. But haven't got round to testing it yet

[Galron]

I play Elysians so I dont "need" air transport but I use it anyway. Extremely efficient way to get meltagun guys within melta range. Dont expect your Valk to do much besides be a transport, it fails miserably as a gunship.

[duz_]

Not here. I use mech guard. I have been tempted to use bullgrins in a valk for that turn 1 charge with power mauls. But haven't got round to testing it yet

Bullgryns + commissars, priest and psyker in a valk works oh so well! :D

Favourite combo in the army right now!

If only bullgryns could go in Vendettas... muhahaha!

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

i would guess (also haven't played in 8th) but looking at things your valks are support and transport as has been said. Use a couple of Vendettas for anti tank (along with some tarantula turrets) and then use a Vulture or two for heavy support. If you want anti air there is the thunderbolt. I also always wanted an avenger because who doesn't love an A-10 in 40k? But remember bodies is were guard thrive and air cav doesn't have a lot of bodies. I found in my other editions you either won epically or died hard and fast. I found it great fun but if you can't take getting curbed stomped on occasion (for me was almost 50/50) then you might want to rethink air cav. Personally I find it a helluva a good time but I am a fluff bunny so there is that.

[NatBrannigan]

Vulture gunships for support.

 

Any list is viable with enough Vulture gunships in support.

[oldmanlee]

Vulture gunships for support.

 

Any list is viable with enough Vulture gunships in support.

 

I have two they are a bit good

[CoffeeGrunt]

Vendettas don't seem like a great performer. I need to get my Vulture out of storage and into battle to try it out. I'm trying out my Thunderbolt this weekend.

[narcolepticltd]

vendettas are not worth the points due to poor ballistic skill and no strafing run special rule, but punisher vultures and other flyers are great. Valks with door gunners and MRP/Multilasers can toss a decent volume of fire for a transport as well - even before the consideration of grav chute deployment of nasty shooty things inside.

[oldmanlee]

I think the biggest issue I'm having at the moment is finding a good balance between flyers and ground units

[narcolepticltd]

I think the biggest issue I'm having at the moment is finding a good balance between flyers and ground units

 

what points limit are you building your list too? are you playing elysians or regular guard? are you only working with the GW index or are forgeworld data sheets ok as well? 

 

Remember that transports can be used by multiple units now, so if it fits it ships... 2 special weapons squads can fit in one valk, and both can be deployed in different spots on the same movement phase... or a swq and a command squad + 2 officers or commissars or your choice of combination there... 

 

I'd definitely look to valks only if you're using them to their full potential of carrying troops - and if it isn't going to carry anything you're better off with a punisher vulture or something like a thunderbolt or avenger (the thunderbolt and avengers don't have the strafing run rule, but both have bs 3+ to compensate instead). 

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Ok, so this is kinda in my wheelhouse. I've not got any experience playing 8th, but Air Cav is sort of my thing so I'll take a stab at it.

 

From the perspective of list building there are a few things to consider in 8th. The first is to consider what units you want to use, so I'll explain my philosophy in context of my unit choices as an example. I'm going to go large scale.

The First question to ask is how you want the list to work. Do you want to use precision deep strikes to take advantage of putting hotshots where they will do the most damage? Or are you wanting to go full on Col Kilgore and play Wagner as you fly Valks across the table? Or are you looking for a bit of both? I prefer the bit of both balanced approach so I'll show my thinking on that.

 

So, I start by picking my troops. This will inform my HQ selections. 

 

I've been a huge fan of Stormies since 3rd edition, and I tended to think that 5th edition was their peak. 8th edition has given them a much needed boost, though I still think they could be better. I have 4 squads of Kasrkin that tend to make up the bulk of my troops.

 

To this end, the list I built goes as such: (Generic AM to keep things simple) 2056 pts

 

Brigade Detachment:

HQ- 1 Company Commander, 2 Tempestor Prime (chainsword and Shouty Stick)

- My reasoning here is to provide orders support and to fill out the FOC. Do not expect great things from officers, as with the real world, your troopers will do all of the work (I know a couple guys will be salty at this...) 

 

Troops- 4x MT Scion squads (10 guys total, 2 PG and vox), 3 Infantry Squads (GL, Vox, ML team)

-Here's where the meat of the list is happening. You could customize the list a bit here, extra special weapons in the scion squads different special weapons and such. The big point is that these are the heavy lifters. This is where your high mobility hard hitters are. Deep strike the Scions in ahead to get those hotshots in close. Then Using the infantry squads in Valks and a vendetta you get the air assault element.

 

Elites- 3x Officer of the fleet

This is pretty explanitory. Use them to enhance your Flyer's shooting. Exactly what it says on the tin.

 

Fast Attack - 3x Armored Sentinels (PC Chainsaw), use them as mobile weapons platform.

 

Heavy Support- 2x HWS (Mortar), 1x HWS (Heavy Bolter) Fill out the FOC, and provide some fire suppport.

 

Flyers - Vendetta (in an aux detachment), 2x Valkyries (HB sponsons, 2x Rocket pods, ML), 2x Vulture (twin punisher) Vendetta and Valks transport troops and provide fire support. Vultures do Air Support.

 

The troops are most important part of the list. Unfortunately, this sort of list is going to be very glass hammer-y. 

[Halfpint100]

if you are going for the deepstrike damage, then take plasma pistols on srgs instead of voxs. especially on the scions who can easily be in range of primes when deepstriking

[oldmanlee]

 

I think the biggest issue I'm having at the moment is finding a good balance between flyers and ground units

 

 

what points limit are you building your list too? are you playing elysians or regular guard? are you only working with the GW index or are forgeworld data sheets ok as well? 

 

Remember that transports can be used by multiple units now, so if it fits it ships... 2 special weapons squads can fit in one valk, and both can be deployed in different spots on the same movement phase... or a swq and a command squad + 2 officers or commissars or your choice of combination there... 

 

 

 

I'd definitely look to valks only if you're using them to their full potential of carrying troops - and if it isn't going to carry anything you're better off with a punisher vulture or something like a thunderbolt or avenger (the thunderbolt and avengers don't have the strafing run rule, but both have bs 3+ to compensate instead).

The lists and games I play are 2000pts forgeworld is a ok and I have a fair few forgeworld flyers to boot regular guard I like elysians but don't own any

[oldmanlee]

Ok, so this is kinda in my wheelhouse. I've not got any experience playing 8th, but Air Cav is sort of my thing so I'll take a stab at it.

 

From the perspective of list building there are a few things to consider in 8th. The first is to consider what units you want to use, so I'll explain my philosophy in context of my unit choices as an example. I'm going to go large scale.

The First question to ask is how you want the list to work. Do you want to use precision deep strikes to take advantage of putting hotshots where they will do the most damage? Or are you wanting to go full on Col Kilgore and play Wagner as you fly Valks across the table? Or are you looking for a bit of both? I prefer the bit of both balanced approach so I'll show my thinking on that.

 

So, I start by picking my troops. This will inform my HQ selections. 

 

I've been a huge fan of Stormies since 3rd edition, and I tended to think that 5th edition was their peak. 8th edition has given them a much needed boost, though I still think they could be better. I have 4 squads of Kasrkin that tend to make up the bulk of my troops.

 

To this end, the list I built goes as such: (Generic AM to keep things simple) 2056 pts

 

Brigade Detachment:

HQ- 1 Company Commander, 2 Tempestor Prime (chainsword and Shouty Stick)

- My reasoning here is to provide orders support and to fill out the FOC. Do not expect great things from officers, as with the real world, your troopers will do all of the work (I know a couple guys will be salty at this...) 

 

Troops- 4x MT Scion squads (10 guys total, 2 PG and vox), 3 Infantry Squads (GL, Vox, ML team)

-Here's where the meat of the list is happening. You could customize the list a bit here, extra special weapons in the scion squads different special weapons and such. The big point is that these are the heavy lifters. This is where your high mobility hard hitters are. Deep strike the Scions in ahead to get those hotshots in close. Then Using the infantry squads in Valks and a vendetta you get the air assault element.

 

Elites- 3x Officer of the fleet

This is pretty explanitory. Use them to enhance your Flyer's shooting. Exactly what it says on the tin.

 

Fast Attack - 3x Armored Sentinels (PC Chainsaw), use them as mobile weapons platform.

 

Heavy Support- 2x HWS (Mortar), 1x HWS (Heavy Bolter) Fill out the FOC, and provide some fire suppport.

 

Flyers - Vendetta (in an aux detachment), 2x Valkyries (HB sponsons, 2x Rocket pods, ML), 2x Vulture (twin punisher) Vendetta and Valks transport troops and provide fire support. Vultures do Air Support.

 

The troops are most important part of the list. Unfortunately, this sort of list is going to be very glass hammer-y.

 

Thanks for the helpfull tips just a question are all the storm trooper squads ten strong?

[CoffeeGrunt]

I personally haven't been that enthralled by Fliers this edition, though I'm willing to give 'em a go.

[oldmanlee]

I personally haven't been that enthralled by Fliers this edition, though I'm willing to give 'em a go.

I know what you mean the valk on paper is a poor flyer but I don't want to do the taurox prime storm trooper spam and moving lots of infantry around the board hurts my back I have looked at mech but the chimera is poor so I thought air cav would be a good option to try

[Galron]

Do it for a few select squads that you need to get somewhere for close range or if you feel froggy an assault, but play Elysians for the rest for pinpoint deep striking. Transports are too expensive this edition to use a lot of them, especially as poor shooting as a Valk is that it doesn't really count as fire support but you still pay the points for the weapons..

[librisrouge]

I'm going to a tournament this weekend with a seven flyer list, so hopefully I'll have plenty of feedback. Its certainly a wacky list, and I don't expect to win much (heck, imma be tabled!), but I want to stress test what flyers and flyer based lists can do.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

 

Ok, so this is kinda in my wheelhouse. I've not got any experience playing 8th, but Air Cav is sort of my thing so I'll take a stab at it.

 

From the perspective of list building there are a few things to consider in 8th. The first is to consider what units you want to use, so I'll explain my philosophy in context of my unit choices as an example. I'm going to go large scale.

The First question to ask is how you want the list to work. Do you want to use precision deep strikes to take advantage of putting hotshots where they will do the most damage? Or are you wanting to go full on Col Kilgore and play Wagner as you fly Valks across the table? Or are you looking for a bit of both? I prefer the bit of both balanced approach so I'll show my thinking on that.

 

So, I start by picking my troops. This will inform my HQ selections. 

 

I've been a huge fan of Stormies since 3rd edition, and I tended to think that 5th edition was their peak. 8th edition has given them a much needed boost, though I still think they could be better. I have 4 squads of Kasrkin that tend to make up the bulk of my troops.

 

To this end, the list I built goes as such: (Generic AM to keep things simple) 2056 pts

 

Brigade Detachment:

HQ- 1 Company Commander, 2 Tempestor Prime (chainsword and Shouty Stick)

- My reasoning here is to provide orders support and to fill out the FOC. Do not expect great things from officers, as with the real world, your troopers will do all of the work (I know a couple guys will be salty at this...) 

 

Troops- 4x MT Scion squads (10 guys total, 2 PG and vox), 3 Infantry Squads (GL, Vox, ML team)

-Here's where the meat of the list is happening. You could customize the list a bit here, extra special weapons in the scion squads different special weapons and such. The big point is that these are the heavy lifters. This is where your high mobility hard hitters are. Deep strike the Scions in ahead to get those hotshots in close. Then Using the infantry squads in Valks and a vendetta you get the air assault element.

 

Elites- 3x Officer of the fleet

This is pretty explanitory. Use them to enhance your Flyer's shooting. Exactly what it says on the tin.

 

Fast Attack - 3x Armored Sentinels (PC Chainsaw), use them as mobile weapons platform.

 

Heavy Support- 2x HWS (Mortar), 1x HWS (Heavy Bolter) Fill out the FOC, and provide some fire suppport.

 

Flyers - Vendetta (in an aux detachment), 2x Valkyries (HB sponsons, 2x Rocket pods, ML), 2x Vulture (twin punisher) Vendetta and Valks transport troops and provide fire support. Vultures do Air Support.

 

The troops are most important part of the list. Unfortunately, this sort of list is going to be very glass hammer-y.

Thanks for the helpfull tips just a question are all the storm trooper squads ten strong?

 

When I built the list, yes. but as I said, the troops section you can tailor for your points level. Also, air cav is going to be a glass cannon. It's one of the reasons I got knights and also tanks. Also why I tend to build lists with a Raven Guard Vanguard, because contemptor dreads are just better than sentinels, and a Pure guard Air Cav list is going to wither under heavy fire and CC threats. 

 

The reason is, while infantry is strong this edition, the fliers and infantry which guard can bring to the fight lack the high strength characteristic and damage output to truly threaten the Daemon Engines, Monstrous Creatures, and Vehicles that other armies will bring to bear. It's actually a problem faced by airmobile forces in the real world. They require the support of heavy forces to be effective in a sustained fight. 

[oldmanlee]

I'm going to a tournament this weekend with a seven flyer list, so hopefully I'll have plenty of feedback. Its certainly a wacky list, and I don't expect to win much (heck, imma be tabled!), but I want to stress test what flyers and flyer based lists can do.

 

What's in your list if you don't mind posting it? Plus good luck

[librisrouge]

I don't mind. Thanks for the well wishes. My basic plan is to go at them while OotF hide in cover and give me some wiggle room if bodies start dropping like flies.

 

Vanguard Detachment (Astra Militarium/Catachan):  

HQ    

Company Commander

Elt    

Command Squad -Plasmagun x4

Officer of the Fleet

Officer of the Fleet

Sergeant Harker

Veteran Squad -Plasmagun x3

Flyer    

Arvus Lighter -Twin Heavy Stubber x2

 

Vanguard Detachment (Astra Militarium/Catachan):  

HQ    

Commissar Yarrick  

Elt    

Veteran Squad -Meltaguns x3

Veteran Squad -Meltaguns x3

Veteran Squad -Meltaguns x3

Flyer    

Valkyrie -Missile Pods x2 and Multilaser

 

Air Wing Detachment (Aeronautica Imperialis)  

Vendetta -Twin Lascannon x3

Vendetta -Twin Lascannon x3

Vendetta -Twin Lascannon x3

Vulture -Twin Punisher Cannon

Vulture -Twin Punisher Cannon

Edited September 1, 2017 by librisrouge

[Halfpint100]

Intriguing...... Let us know how the games go! 

[duz_]

Interesting! Somewhat 7th ed styled let us know how it goes. Don't forget pics! :D

[oldmanlee]

I don't mind. Thanks for the well wishes. My basic plan is to go at them while OotF hide in cover and give me some wiggle room if bodies start dropping like flies.

 

Vanguard Detachment (Astra Militarium/Catachan):  

HQ    

Company Commander

Elt    

Command Squad -Plasmagun x4

Officer of the Fleet

Officer of the Fleet

Sergeant Harker

Veteran Squad -Plasmagun x3

Flyer    

Arvus Lighter -Twin Heavy Stubber x2

 

Vanguard Detachment (Astra Militarium/Catachan):  

HQ    

Commissar Yarrick  

Elt    

Veteran Squad -Meltaguns x3

Veteran Squad -Meltaguns x3

Veteran Squad -Meltaguns x3

Flyer    

Valkyrie -Missile Pods x2 and Multilaser

 

Air Wing Detachment (Aeronautica Imperialis)  

Vendetta -Twin Lascannon x3

Vendetta -Twin Lascannon x3

Vendetta -Twin Lascannon x3

Vulture -Twin Punisher Cannon

Vulture -Twin Punisher Cannon

 

That's an awsome list make sure to take lots of pictures and best of luck