Air cav tips

[Tirak]

I had been thinking about running an Elysian Air Support detachment with Krieg mud crunchers as a cohesive force. What say ye?

 

I would be a bit gunshy about it purely because you can't bring an OoTF in an Air Support Detachment. Elysian flyers can only recieve OoTF buffs from an Elysian OoTF. Bringing 'normal' guard flyers opens up more options to you, and the only thing you lose is Deepstrike on the flyers, which is of questionable use because the lack of clairity about having moved minimum vs having moved.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

That's fair. So For now I'll stick to regular guard...

[Guardsman Bob]

Vulture -Twin Punisher Cannons (B) - This baby is good at exactly one role, shredding light infantry. The added shots are great but the changes to cover mean that marines with +2 saves are common and no adjustment to AP means that it is spitting into the wind to kill tough things. It slings a lot of dice, which is fun, but all of my opponents were surprised with how little it killed after a turn or two (one mentioned that he was afraid and then felt like he should have focused on the vendettas instead.)

Without the OotF one Vulture can statical expect about two dead Marines (in cover) depending on their spending CP for a single re-roll. You clearly already knew how your gunship worked while they did not.

 

A strong mythnomer for 8th will continue to be "MOAR dice = MASSIVE WIN" while the statisitcs (and actual gameplay) can be damed. If people in a tournament situation have that gut reaction then the online noise will only make it into fact. I don't think it is an accident that some people on Daka are pushing "piles of dice are so boring (s0 plz n3rf GW)," since these same people who had no problem with regular Infantry Squads being total trash from 3rd to 7th editions of 40k. They already know the truth, just the same old meta-game politics.

 

I'm really curious how often you felt the 18 inch range for strafing runs worked out verses it being pointless? Basically how times each game (out of total game turns) did the strafing buff apply? Are OotF justified against saving those points for a Lascannon in a squad or squeezing points for a Sniper SWS/CS elsewhere?

 

To me they feel more like Detachment filler/fluff than anything else.

[oldmanlee]

Guys what are people using for there boots on the ground units( thanks space marine players) I was thinking of running three infantry squads all in chimeras good ideas or too many points?

[Guardsman Bob]

Guys what are people using for there boots on the ground units( thanks space marine players) I was thinking of running three infantry squads all in chimeras good ideas or too many points?

Yes it will eat up a bunch of your points.

 

I don't run any air lists but this sounds right. Fallback (running away) is easier in a Chimera. A few bare bones Scout Sentinels can always stave off those deep strikers. Alternatively you can just field a two or three Squads of bare bones Sentinels as well. It would be cheaper.

[oldmanlee]

 

Guys what are people using for there boots on the ground units( thanks space marine players) I was thinking of running three infantry squads all in chimeras good ideas or too many points?

Yes it will eat up a bunch of your points.

I don't run any air lists but this sounds right. Fallback (running away) is easier in a Chimera. A few bare bones Scout Sentinels can always stave off those deep strikers. Alternatively you can just field a two or three Squads of bare bones Sentinels as well. It would be cheaper.

I did not think of sentinels good shout

[duz_]

Fallback (running away) is easier in a Chimera.

 

Unless its on its last profile in which it only moves 4"! :lol: :ermm:

[Tirak]

Chimera's are a waste of points, better to bring the 2 squads the Chimera costs.

 

I've been running a lot of Air Lists and my main groundforce is a brigade of 60 conscripts and 4 infantry squads, backed up by Earthshaker Batteries and Scout Sentinels for the Deep Strike Bubble. Company Commanders, Psykers, Comissars and OotF to round things out. In the air, 3 vultures and 1 Tbolt.

 

That fills me up to a full brigade and air wing detachment for 13 command points.

[Guardsman Bob]

Chimera's are a waste of points, better to bring the 2 squads the Chimera costs.

 

I've been running a lot of Air Lists and my main groundforce is a brigade of 60 conscripts and 4 infantry squads, backed up by Earthshaker Batteries and Scout Sentinels for the Deep Strike Bubble. Company Commanders, Psykers, Comissars and OotF to round things out. In the air, 3 vultures and 1 Tbolt.

 

That fills me up to a full brigade and air wing detachment for 13 command points.

This is more a combined arms force rather than an air cav. Are Thinderbolts any good for anti air on 6x4 tables? Totally digging the Vultures in numbers.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Chimera's are a waste of points, better to bring the 2 squads the Chimera costs.

I guess it's really going to depend about those Chimeras. True the Taurox and Taurox Prime are the standout transport this edition, But If I were going to take Chimeras, I'd use the Gryphonne Pattern, with either the autocannon or the twin HB on the turret. Sometimes it's about mobility.

 

 

I've been running a lot of Air Lists and my main groundforce is a brigade of 60 conscripts and 4 infantry squads, backed up by Earthshaker Batteries and Scout Sentinels for the Deep Strike Bubble. Company Commanders, Psykers, Comissars and OotF to round things out. In the air, 3 vultures and 1 Tbolt.

 

That fills me up to a full brigade and air wing detachment for 13 command points.

How exactly does that get you to 13 Command Points? I count 10. 9 for the Brigade and 1 for the Air wing. 9+1=10. Unless there's something you forgot to tell us. I'm assuming that you're taking 3 Company Commanders, 3 Scout Sentinels, 3 Earthshaker batteries, 2 commissars and 1 OotF at the minimum? Seems to be a solid list.

 

This is more a combined arms force rather than an air cav. Are Thinderbolts any good for anti air on 6x4 tables? Totally digging the Vultures in numbers.

 

Actually, if you look at it from a real world perspective, The US 1st Cav, 82nd Airborne, 10th Mountain and 101st Airborne (Air Assault) divisions all have artillery support, they each also have 2 full Combat Aviation Brigades to move all that infantry and artillery around. I'd be more suspicious of tanks in a supposedly Air Cav list. 

[Guardsman Bob]

 

This is more a combined arms force rather than an air cav. Are Thinderbolts any good for anti air on 6x4 tables? Totally digging the Vultures in numbers.

 

Actually, if you look at it from a real world perspective, The US 1st Cav, 82nd Airborne, 10th Mountain and 101st Airborne (Air Assault) divisions all have artillery support, they each also have 2 full Combat Aviation Brigades to move all that infantry and artillery around. I'd be more suspicious of tanks in a supposedly Air Cav list.

True, good point. Although only one group is going to realistically be expected to receive direct enemy fire since the other will be using their artillery from a secure firebase.

 

I view 40k Air Cav lists as most everyone is deepstriking or airborne. With the exception being infiltrators (special ops) and Scout Sentinels (recon).

[Tirak]

 

Chimera's are a waste of points, better to bring the 2 squads the Chimera costs.

I guess it's really going to depend about those Chimeras. True the Taurox and Taurox Prime are the standout transport this edition, But If I were going to take Chimeras, I'd use the Gryphonne Pattern, with either the autocannon or the twin HB on the turret. Sometimes it's about mobility.

 

 

I've been running a lot of Air Lists and my main groundforce is a brigade of 60 conscripts and 4 infantry squads, backed up by Earthshaker Batteries and Scout Sentinels for the Deep Strike Bubble. Company Commanders, Psykers, Comissars and OotF to round things out. In the air, 3 vultures and 1 Tbolt.

 

That fills me up to a full brigade and air wing detachment for 13 command points.

How exactly does that get you to 13 Command Points? I count 10. 9 for the Brigade and 1 for the Air wing. 9+1=10. Unless there's something you forgot to tell us. I'm assuming that you're taking 3 Company Commanders, 3 Scout Sentinels, 3 Earthshaker batteries, 2 commissars and 1 OotF at the minimum? Seems to be a solid list.

 

All Battle-forged Armies start with 3 Command Points.

-(pg 242 second paragraph under Command Points, 8th Ed. Rulebook)

 

 

+3 for being Battleforge +9 For the Brigade, +1 for the Air Wing Detachment = 13CP

 

Thunderbolts are a great anti aircraft unit. I bring mine with Skystrikes and they reliably clear the board of their targets. Since Skystrikes affect any unit with the Fly keyword, it allows you to reliably hit everything from winged Daemon Princes to Assault Marines to Battlesuites to Helldrakes and Dakka Jets. Toss in the Twin Lascannon and Heavy Autocannons, and you've got a veritable flying death machine. It will draw a lot of fire because of its shot output, but it puts out enough that its been useful to me in every single game I've used it in.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

 

 

Chimera's are a waste of points, better to bring the 2 squads the Chimera costs.

I guess it's really going to depend about those Chimeras. True the Taurox and Taurox Prime are the standout transport this edition, But If I were going to take Chimeras, I'd use the Gryphonne Pattern, with either the autocannon or the twin HB on the turret. Sometimes it's about mobility.

 

 

I've been running a lot of Air Lists and my main groundforce is a brigade of 60 conscripts and 4 infantry squads, backed up by Earthshaker Batteries and Scout Sentinels for the Deep Strike Bubble. Company Commanders, Psykers, Comissars and OotF to round things out. In the air, 3 vultures and 1 Tbolt.

 

That fills me up to a full brigade and air wing detachment for 13 command points.

How exactly does that get you to 13 Command Points? I count 10. 9 for the Brigade and 1 for the Air wing. 9+1=10. Unless there's something you forgot to tell us. I'm assuming that you're taking 3 Company Commanders, 3 Scout Sentinels, 3 Earthshaker batteries, 2 commissars and 1 OotF at the minimum? Seems to be a solid list.

 

All Battle-forged Armies start with 3 Command Points.

-(pg 242 second paragraph under Command Points, 8th Ed. Rulebook)

 

+3 for being Battleforge +9 For the Brigade, +1 for the Air Wing Detachment = 13CP

Ah, Ok. Thanks for clearing that up. I haven't had a lot of time or money to invest in WH40k recently so I've been relying on other sources. Didn't mean to sound like I was trying to call you out, I just wasn't aware of some things.

 

 

Thunderbolts are a great anti aircraft unit. I bring mine with Skystrikes and they reliably clear the board of their targets. Since Skystrikes affect any unit with the Fly keyword, it allows you to reliably hit everything from winged Daemon Princes to Assault Marines to Battlesuites to Helldrakes and Dakka Jets. Toss in the Twin Lascannon and Heavy Autocannons, and you've got a veritable flying death machine. It will draw a lot of fire because of its shot output, but it puts out enough that its been useful to me in every single game I've used it in.

That's a lot of points though. Seems like they're good though. Guess I need to finish building mine...

 

Edit: Regarding flyers, where is the rule that says they suffer -1 to shooting? I can't find it on the datasheet, is it in the rulebook?

Edited September 11, 2017 by Ulrik_Ironfist

[Dr_Ruminahui]

 

 

Edit: Regarding flyers, where is the rule that says they suffer -1 to shooting? I can't find it on the datasheet, is it in the rulebook?

 

 

It's just the basic rules that heavy weapons have -1 to hit when they have moved.  Given that many fliers have to keep moving and are only equipped with heavy weapons, the -1 might as well be a broader rule.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Yeah, the -1 to Hit hurts a lot of platforms, I feel. Especially BS4+ or worse platforms, as it's a drastic reduction for them.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

 

It's just the basic rules that heavy weapons have -1 to hit when they have moved.  Given that many fliers have to keep moving and are only equipped with heavy weapons, the -1 might as well be a broader rule.

I see. That's idiotic though. It really hurts Thunderbolts, Unless it has a rule I'm overlooking. 

 

Yeah, the -1 to Hit hurts a lot of platforms, I feel. Especially BS4+ or worse platforms, as it's a drastic reduction for them.

Agreed. I think that maybe GW didn't think that one through. I can't think of a single vehicle weapon that isn't heavy in this edition. Even heavy flamers are heavy in this edition. It's kinda horrendous that vehicles aren't immune to that -1 to hit.

[oldmanlee]

 

It's just the basic rules that heavy weapons have -1 to hit when they have moved.  Given that many fliers have to keep moving and are only equipped with heavy weapons, the -1 might as well be a broader rule.

 

I see. That's idiotic though. It really hurts Thunderbolts, Unless it has a rule I'm overlooking. 

 

Yeah, the -1 to Hit hurts a lot of platforms, I feel. Especially BS4+ or worse platforms, as it's a drastic reduction for them.

 

Agreed. I think that maybe GW didn't think that one through. I can't think of a single vehicle weapon that isn't heavy in this edition. Even heavy flamers are heavy in this edition. It's kinda horrendous that vehicles aren't immune to that -1 to hit.

Thunderbolts hit on 3s normally but have to move so hitting on 4s which sucks

[Tirak]

 

 

It's just the basic rules that heavy weapons have -1 to hit when they have moved.  Given that many fliers have to keep moving and are only equipped with heavy weapons, the -1 might as well be a broader rule.

I see. That's idiotic though. It really hurts Thunderbolts, Unless it has a rule I'm overlooking. 

 

Not so bad with BS3+. You shoot enough stuff at ground units that you score good hits. If you're using it for anti air, the Skystrike's will hit on 3s or 4s if they have the Hard to Hit rule.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

That's not so bad then. For some reason I thought Thunderbolts were BS4+.

[oldmanlee]

Guys

What special weapons teams would people recommend ?

[CoffeeGrunt]

Plasma fo' dayz.

[oldmanlee]

Plasma fo' dayz.

 

Good old plasma any other suggestions ?

[CoffeeGrunt]

Flamers are popular because they auto-hit. Meltas I feel are a bit too risky as you need to get right close and bubble wrap normally prevents that. They're also the most expensive option IIRC.

 

Grenade Launchers are decent support for Guardsman squads, but they don't hit hard enough for an elite drop and shoot style force.

[oldmanlee]

Flamers are popular because they auto-hit. Meltas I feel are a bit too risky as you need to get right close and bubble wrap normally prevents that. They're also the most expensive option IIRC.

 

Grenade Launchers are decent support for Guardsman squads, but they don't hit hard enough for an elite drop and shoot style force.

What about demo charges have you tried them?

[CoffeeGrunt]

Not personally. Might be good, they don't replace your Lasgun now either.